[The Mad Navigator]

More good news on the monorail front.
Mumbai has announced just in the last week that it is going ahead with the extension of it's currently under construction monorail line and is going to build 7 NEW lines by 2022 bringing the system to 184km and all stations will be, at a minimum, the capacity of 20,000 pphpd. 2022 also happens to be the time when Sao Paulo will have completed it's new 110km monorail system which they are expecting to have ridership levels of approx 1 million a day by 2035.
Aren't you glad you live in one of the richest cities in the world and don't have to tolerate developing countries lousy transit systems?
I never knew so called "tonka toys" could carry a million passengers a day.................who knew.
Yet more proof that monorail is the best option for Toronto. Quick to build, subway capacity, very affordable, safer than any other system, smooth, quiet, less visually intrusive, and able to take on anything Mother Nature can dish out. No other system offers these benefits and why Toronto should emulate other large cities and build monorails.

That's great! Too bad it falls mostly on deaf ears. In any case, I don't know why you persist with this obsession....

 

[SlickFranky]

Yet more proof that monorail is the best option for Toronto. Quick to build, subway capacity, very affordable, safer than any other system, smooth, quiet, less visually intrusive, and able to take on anything Mother Nature can dish out. No other system offers these benefits and why Toronto should emulate other large cities and build monorails.

So I take it you have no response to all the legitimate reasons people gave for why building monorail in Toronto isn't such a no-brainer.

 

[Justin10000]

Delhi built 110km of conventional metro in 12 years!

 

[ssiguy2]

First.............DRL. Why do say I have a monorail obsession when this is a MONORAIL thread. If you don't want to talk monorails that's fine, don't use the thread.
Second..................Yes, there are legitimate concerns and benefits of all systems and technologies. Like everything else there is no such thing as perfect. Perfection is a point of view. No one ever gets exactly what they want. Everyone would love to be within a block of a subway but besides the fact that it is impossible to fund it would reduce the speed of the trains to that of a regular local bus. This is one of the main flaws of TC. It wanted rapid transit but then wouldn't build street flyovers, didn't want to disrupt the road traffic so is allowing left hand turns, and to make sure no one has to walk more than a block than they do now it has stops every 2 to 3 blocks. It tried to be everything to everybody and hence it's complete failure as mass/rapid transit yet still is coming in at a very tidy sum with no real value for the dollar.
Transit planning not only requires forethought and vision but also the balls to make tough decisions. That means stations where needed and remembering this is mass/rapid transit so many people will have to get use to idea of walking to get to the station. It means having to look at alternatives to be able to make informed decisions that can actually be realized within the current fiscal situation. It means having to have an open mind and not a myopic one. Times change and so must attitudes. It means having the balls to inform the citizenry that the days of tunneling everywhere are over and you better get use to using rail ROW and elevation for mass/rapid transit. It means having the balls to tell YorkU and Malvern that tunnels are out of the question.........case closed. It means having the balls to turn to the TTC union and TELLING them that any new system will be completely automated.................the TTC is suppose to be a public service not a make-work project.It means having the balls to just tell whole sections of the city that other areas are higher priorities so you are just going to have to damn well wait.
The reason I think Monorail is Toronto's best option is that it is the best alternative to subways as streetcars are slow and unpredictable due to bunching and potential accidents along the route, SkyTrain is too expensive and troublesome in winter, and BRT just doesn't have the capacity.
Much to everyone's surprise I would love to have tunneled subways all over the place but it will never happen so there is no point of dreaming. Subways are very expensive and Toronto is nearly broke. I strongly agree that current subway lines should be extended as subways whether that be tunneled, elevated, or at grade. The fewer the transfers the better. I do, however, think Toronto should not be building any new subways as due to the expense. If they do then Toronto will end up with a bunch of unconnected Sheppard stubways.

 

[ssiguy2]

Delhi built 110km of conventional metro in 12 years!

I know and that is a real feather in her cap. For a relatively poor city it has done wonders. It is important to note that most of the system is at grade rail ROW or elevated. A very logical idea and very fiscally prudent.

 

[EnviroTO]

I know and that is a real feather in her cap. For a relatively poor city it has done wonders. It is important to note that most of the system is at grade rail ROW or elevated. A very logical idea and very fiscally prudent.

I wouldn't call it fiscally prudent. The central parts of the system made sense, but the extended it too far out into suburbia. Admittedly most of those empty fields are going to be intensely developed but I would hardly call Golf Course Metro Station prudent.

 

[adma]

First.............DRL. Why do say I have a monorail obsession when this is a MONORAIL thread. If you don't want to talk monorails that's fine, don't use the thread.

This is your monorail thread, Mr. Serial Message Board Spammer. You're a known quantity; you've made an ass and nuisance of yourself elsewhere...

 

[ssiguy2]

You are right, I did start this thread but now at 19 pages it obviously, whether for good or ill, is something people want to exchange ideas about. Anyone who doesn't like to talk about monorails is more than free to ignore it.

 

[ssiguy2]

BTW, just to make you more upset.......................the tenders for the new Manaus monorail have just gone out this month. It will be 22km. have a minimum capacity of 25,000 pphpd and ...............get this......................will be completed by 2014. In just 4 years they will have built one third of Toronto's entire system.
Also , the model of substainability in the third world, Curitba is planning on starting it's 20km monorail system by next year by taking out one of its extremely well used BRT routes as it is now over capacity. No tenders have yet gone out.

 

[adma]

You are right, I did start this thread but now at 19 pages it obviously, whether for good or ill, is something people want to exchange ideas about. Anyone who doesn't like to talk about monorails is more than free to ignore it.

Scram, spammer.

 

[adma]

BTW, just to make you more upset.......................the tenders for the new Manaus monorail have just gone out this month. It will be 22km. have a minimum capacity of 25,000 pphpd and ...............get this......................will be completed by 2014. In just 4 years they will have built one third of Toronto's entire system.
Also , the model of substainability in the third world, Curitba is planning on starting it's 20km monorail system by next year by taking out one of its extremely well used BRT routes as it is now over capacity. No tenders have yet gone out.

Scram, spammer.

 

[TOareaFan]

Scram, spammer.

I don't know this person but why does his passion for monorails make him any less welcome here than someone who has a passion for, I don't know, buses/cars/buildings/subways/etc.

Am I missising something?

 

[EnviroTO]

BTW, just to make you more upset.......................the tenders for the new Manaus monorail have just gone out this month. It will be 22km. have a minimum capacity of 25,000 pphpd and ...............get this......................will be completed by 2014. In just 4 years they will have built one third of Toronto's entire system.
Also , the model of substainability in the third world, Curitba is planning on starting it's 20km monorail system by next year by taking out one of its extremely well used BRT routes as it is now over capacity. No tenders have yet gone out.

If only Toronto could be like the third world. Life would be so much better for us then.

What is bad about monorail? Zero cost savings when wholly at grade or underground, and greater energy use due to increased rolling resistance. All the lines we are building in Toronto are at grade or underground and I would say that energy costs are an important consideration these days. As for Skytrain, I have no idea why a monorail solution wasn't used there. Despite already having an ALRT system they opened up bidding on the Canada Line to other technologies and no company pitched a monorail solution. I would imagine if a company submitted a monorail bid with capabilities meeting the design requirements and at a cost lower than the alternatives there probably would be a monorail built in Vancouver. Why didn't the Japanese monorail players push a bid for the Canada Line? Vancouver was open to technology change, and Montreal specified a metro with tires but even still a company is trying to sell a metro with rails to them. Surely if a company is out there selling monorails believes that their product is the ultimate solution for urban transit they should have been able to submit a viable bid for the Canada Line.

 

[M II A II R II K]

(Flickr: Flickr 7500)

 

[Fresh Start]

Transit planning not only requires forethought and vision but also the balls to make tough decisions. That means stations where needed and remembering this is mass/rapid transit so many people will have to get use to idea of walking to get to the station. It means having to look at alternatives to be able to make informed decisions that can actually be realized within the current fiscal situation. It means having to have an open mind and not a myopic one. Times change and so must attitudes. It means having the balls to inform the citizenry that the days of tunneling everywhere are over and you better get use to using rail ROW and elevation for mass/rapid transit. It means having the balls to tell YorkU and Malvern that tunnels are out of the question.........case closed. It means having the balls to turn to the TTC union and TELLING them that any new system will be completely automated.................the TTC is suppose to be a public service not a make-work project.It means having the balls to just tell whole sections of the city that other areas are higher priorities so you are just going to have to damn well wait.

Well, I'm not going to condemn you just for having a strong opinion and sticking by your convictions. A lot of what you say here in this quote is just plain common sense. Unfortunately, Torontonians are relunctant to change. We already have subways and streetcars for which countless people have dedicated their whole careers to billing up as the most suitable modes for Toronto public transit needs. To switch now makes their whole professions almost pointless. Not to mention anything that the TTC touches nowadays mushrooms into mulitmillion dollars per kilometre megaprojects with green roofs, 4 elevator shafts, stadium sized mezzanines, 1000 parking spaces which will seat 2/3rds empty most days, 8 bus bays for which 2 routes pass through daily, etc. Canada will never build transit systems on the same scale as the US because we frankly don't have the cash for it; we'll never match Europe, Latin America and Japan because we never started off early enough (most of Santiago, Chile's subway system for instance was built during the Great Depression, imagine that). And lastly BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) have such high population densities that people there are willing to work for any amount just to cover their basic living expenses. Compare this to Toronto where bus drivers and fare booth collectors are making close to $100 k a year. Plus those countries benefit from massive Foreign Direct Investment, which Canada lacks. We've even got Pamela Anderson in the news telling Russia not to support our dying sealing industry where Newfoundlanders have few other job prospects. Urgh!

So ssiguy, the time to build monorails in Toronto was along ago, 1969 in fact, when the TTC/City was seriously considering a network of ALRT stemming out from Islington, Warden Stns on the Bloor Line to the airport and to Malvern Town Centre, as well underneath Queen through the downtown core then up Greenwood and Don Mills, and one across the whole length of the Finch Hydro Corridor. When labour costs were far less, there was not as many strigent building code requirements, and a far less radicalized private citizenry. But that was 1969. What Toronto got instead by 1985 was the 7 km long Scarborough RT using experimental hybrid technology that every generation since wants erased from memory. That's the stigma against elevated railed mass transit you'd have to overcome to convince the masses that monorails are good in this ME, ME generation of NIMBYs who want everything but aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve positive end-results.

To avoid all of that stress and heartache alone, I'd just expand the subway network as feasibly and cost-effectively as possible and balance out its higher expense with dedicated bus lanes and TSP lights for express bus routes all over the city.