[adma]

Now I wish Dominion's would sell their store for a 12 story Mozo-style condo with a grocery store@base. And the JCC needs to be bulldozed: it's ugly and looks like it belongs at Bathurst and Centre not in red brick Annex!

Its makeover might be c2000 architectural cliche; but except maybe for being too short for the "urban intensification" mantra, I don't find JCC so horrific or eyesoreish or contextually inappropriate (or even un-red-brickish) as to merit bulldozing. In fact, from how it handles its primary function to its secondary ground-floor retail (Greg's Ice Cream et al), I find it actually *excels* as an urban building, more than before its makeover.

I'm not accusing you, personally, of anything; but maybe the only true "incongruity" today about JCC is its Jewishness--that is, it's the kind of institution, never mind building, that we'd more likely associate with Bathurst and Centre these days, wherever today's version of "the ghetto" exists. In the Annex, though, it's but an anachronistic holdover from Spadina's Shopsy's'n'Switzer's days--though it's sure doing well for a holdover. (Ah, channelling our inner racist...)

 

[adma]

This building is no prize but honestly I don't understand the particularly strong feelings people have about it. Take a walk around this intersection, this is probably the best addition to the surroundings for 50 years, although that point is more a critizism of past failures than a vote of confidence in Mosaic itself.

Mmmmm...still dunno. Maybe because you're overestimating the failureness of said past-failures...

 

[Redroom Studios]

indeed, Bathurst and Centre... kind of funny at first glance but could easily be construed as having racist overtones. Hopefully you just meant suburban...

 

[adma]

Well, why not a little bit of both? Like, as Jewish institutions go, etc. etc. It's akin to criticizing something in old Chinatown as something that'd be better off at Steeles + Kennedy...

 

[Redroom Studios]

I dont think Urbandreamer is Chinese though... Wookie I thought...?

 

[ProjectEnd]

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.........

 

[Archivist]

I find Mosaic to be slightly fussy, but fine, and frankly I find the gently curving face it shows to Bloor Street to be quite pleasant. I also don't mind the changes to the JCC and think they are also quite contextual.

But then, I'm easy to please.

 

[urbandreamer]

To clarify: I find the JCC aesthetically appalling. It looks like something that belongs at Bathurst and Centre--a suburban wasteland. I often wonder if they wanted to build a huge eyesore (ie as cheap as possible and inappropriate as possible) at Bloor and Spadina on purpose! It ruins the corner just as the ROMbarn ruins the urban streetwall @U/Bloor.

However, the falafel place on Bloor (JCC) there is really good. Having Jewish roots am I allowed to be critical of the JCC (even though I'm too lazy to use it anymore?)

Edit: But shoebaca was made in China

 

[Observer Walt]

The JCC is an update / renovation of a building which originally had dated from (I think) the 1950s. Renovating an existing building imposes limitations on what you can do. If it were being built from the ground up, I'd possibly agree with the criticism that it's appearance is a bit out of place in this red-brick nabe.

I like the way it relates to the street, with ground-level retailing. That's a lot better than some "institutional" buildings which seem to sit in isolation from their surroundings. On the Spadina side, windows allow you to look in, again, a friendly gesture to the street.

And by the way, no offense, but isn't the "Bathurst and Centre" comment just a bit patronizing? There are plenty of Jewish people in the Annex and other central locations. And as a further by-the-way, the Centre is open to non-Jews. A friend of mine, non-Jewish, living a few blocks away, works out at the JCC regularly.

 

[alklay]

I too am not sure why the building belongs at "Bathurst and Centre." I have a feeling its just a statement made out of ignorance but I would love to be proven wrong.

The JCC itself, is, in my opinion, a smart urban building. It addresses the corner, uses decent materials, contains retail on the retail strip and serves the surrounding community well with its various uses.

 

[urbanvillageboy]

Its makeover might be c2000 architectural cliche; but except maybe for being too short for the "urban intensification" mantra, I don't find JCC so horrific or eyesoreish or contextually inappropriate (or even un-red-brickish) as to merit bulldozing. In fact, from how it handles its primary function to its secondary ground-floor retail (Greg's Ice Cream et al), I find it actually *excels* as an urban building, more than before its makeover.

I'm not accusing you, personally, of anything; but maybe the only true "incongruity" today about JCC is its Jewishness--that is, it's the kind of institution, never mind building, that we'd more likely associate with Bathurst and Centre these days, wherever today's version of "the ghetto" exists. In the Annex, though, it's but an anachronistic holdover from Spadina's Shopsy's'n'Switzer's days--though it's sure doing well for a holdover. (Ah, channelling our inner racist...)

]There's a thriving Jewish community all over downtown Toronto- from the Annex to Riverdale with several active and growing synagogues and a day school, the latter situated in our "anachronistic" JCC, to serve it. Time to let go of some stereotypes of what it is to be Jewish nowadays and look at the real picture which goes far to explain why a Jewish centre would persist in the city. By way of example of how things have changed, there's a whole network of lesbian and gay Jewish couples with kids living in these downtown areas and using these Jewish institutions. Real life is quite complex and a hell of lot more interesting than stereotypes.

 

[Granny]

Is it safe yet?

Is it safe to enter this thread yet and post something contrary to the rabbles' outcries of pain, anguish and indiginities this poor structure has caused.
Holy Crap! What a feeding frenzy. For a while there it looked like few individuals were in a real heated duel to see who could top who with the best insults for this building.
I have to admit that it is entertaining watching sheep follow each other and go through their antics but it does eventually get tiresome.

Folks,.. a few points if I may...to put a little perspective on all this:

1.This is SPADINA AVE!! You were expecting magnificent breathtaking, history making architecture.....here??

2.This is SPADINA AVE!! This will never be anything more than a really really nice place for the local University students. Investors happy, students happy, Politicians happy, builder and his investors happy.

3.This is SPADINA AVE!! Nothing is going to look great here. The best anyone can hope for is reasonably good, and hope for more of the same.

4.This is SPADINA AVE!! Did I mention that? Move along folks. Get on with your lives. Nothing much to get excited about here. After all we ARE Torontonians....and this is part of our ...mosaic.

 

[Disparishun]

]Time to let go of some stereotypes of what it is to be Jewish nowadays and look at...

By way of example of how things have changed, there's a whole network of lesbian and gay Jewish couples with kids living in these downtown areas and using these Jewish institutions.

That's overstating things rather dramatically, isn't it? South of St. Clair Toronto has no kosher restaurants (save a Financial District snack bar), no kosher butchers, not more than a handful of full-time synagogues (from hundreds), a lone Jewish day school (from dozens), no stores that sell Jewish religious scriptures (from a dozen or so), and so forth.

That's not by accident. Sure, there are Jews all over the city. Koreans, Italians, Persians, too. But these and most other ethnic groups have areas of the city where their settlement patterns are more intense, their communal institutions more numerous, the commerces catering to their particular needs more plentiful, and so forth.

Acknowledging that isn't stereotyping. It's basic urban geography.

the real picture which goes far to explain why a Jewish centre would persist in the city

This seems a bit disingenuous, too. The reason why philanthropists -- who do not themselves live downtown -- funded the renovation of the Bloor JCC certainly does have much to do with history and that building's historic presence. The fundraising campaign was all about revival and outreach. The building's programming and use continues to involve much use by groups outside the Jewish community.

Those are all good things. But it's quite fair to say that Bathurst-Centre, say, is in a thick zone of Toronto's Jewish life today in a way that Bloor-Spadina once was, and now isn't. It's unfair to smear someone pointing that out as engaging in "stereotyping" or detached from "real life". If anything, it seems to me far less "real life" to announce that Toronto's Jewish community is no more clustered in, say, Thornhill-Vaughan than "all over downtown". This description (from here) seems a fairer statement to me:

The GTA is a place with a wide spectrum of Jewish life. Are you looking for an Orthodox all-girls’ high school for students with physical or developmental disabilities? Or a pluralistic, downtown synagogue with a young population? Or a neighbourhood with so much Hebrew that it feels like a Tel Aviv suburb? The GTA has it all.

 

[alklay]

Its unfair to criticize someone for stating that the JCC is not appropriate for this corner and should properly be at Bathurst amd Centre? That's hardly 'unfair'!

 

[Disparishun]

Its unfair to criticize someone for stating that the JCC is not appropriate for this corner and should properly be at Bathurst amd Centre? That's hardly 'unfair'!

Yep. We're saying the same thing.

I was disagreeing with Urbanvillageboy who jumped all over everyone who dared to suggest that there the Jewish community -- and things like the JCC -- are clustered more at Bathurst & Centre than at Bloor & Spadina.

But, then, I also sorta like the JCC building, especially as a reno, for the reasons stated in this thread. It's fairly open to the street and mixes in retail nicely, which is streetscape-friendly; it provides a gym and theatre spaces and so on for local use; etc.