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Um, these are human beings. Someone's brother, son, daughter, uncle... have you people have no compassion? Your clearly sheltered from the real world and possess little life experience to be making such disturbing, judgmental statements about a troubled segment of our society.

Perhaps it is you that's sheltered from the real world. I live downtown and take the TTC everyday. Unlike suburbanites and car-drivers who whiz in and out of the core at their convenience - and romanticize the homeless accordingly - I see the homeless up close, as a pedestrian, engaged in drug-dealing; aggressive panhandling of tourists, the disabled and the elderly; spitting in TTC drivers' faces; smoking crack in broad daylight; urinating and defecating on sidewalks; weaving in and out of heavy traffic in drug-induced stupor. The list goes on and on. I've seen dirty needles and used condoms in Nathan Phillips Square. I and others I know, also downtown residents, have been intimidated and accosted by homeless people in the square.

The homeless aren't raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. Many are hardened, petty criminals and many exhibit very disturbing, very anti-social behaviour.

All of this, and sleeping in the square, breaks the social contract governing public spaces. It has to stop. Beautifying around such ugliness in the square is absurd.
 
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Perhaps it is you that's sheltered from the real world. I live downtown and take the TTC everyday. Unlike suburbanites and car-drivers who whiz in and out of the core at their convenience - and romanticize the homeless accordingly - I see the homeless up close, as a pedestrian, engaged in drug-dealing; aggressive panhandling of tourists, the disabled and the elderly; spitting in TTC drivers' faces; smoking crack in broad daylight; urinating and defecating on sidewalks; weaving in and out of heavy traffic in drug-induced stupor. The list goes on and on. I've seen dirty needles and used condoms in Nathan Phillips Square. I and others I know, also downtown residents, have been intimidated and accosted by homeless people in the square.

The homeless aren't raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. Many are hardened, petty criminals and many exhibit very disturbing, very anti-social behaviour.

All of this, and sleeping in the square, breaks the social contract governing public spaces. It has to stop. Beautifying around such ugliness in the square is absurd.

You can't argue with people from the left because their arguments are usually emotionally based. They ignore facts when they don't mesh with their ideas of what is good.
 
Well, since the rightist stance is that society's not to get involved with any tax dollars regarding human help, I suppose that eliminates any public shelters and supports. So - since charity begins at home, I think it must start with the the supporters of extreme economic individuality (and yes, online posters) taking the homeless into their stately yards and basements as unique human-like pets or charitable tax write-offs. A manufacturer of small backyard sheds and leashes - or basement cells - could make a mint.

That solution won't be for everyone, since many realistic city people can't all afford a multi-room home with soundproofing. Many might still want to participate in reporting the homeless to the police through convenient apps and websites - getting a 'gold star' award online that would look good on a resume - or simply for bragging rights. Making intermittent charitable and corporate donations could also be put to work helping one's social status.

Herding the indigent out to camps on the corporate dollar - to work 'difficult' and 'awkward' labour, with overtime to work off their transtion cost, of course - would be nice. The kind hearted might want to 'adopt-a-rubbie', and recieve handwritten letters on holidays, as well as updates on how well their powerless beneficiary is doing. The children will love sending holiday treats!
Urban work centres could easily be located in existing remote brownfields and second-hand corporate parks. So long as they are impassably secured and kept from sight, they would provide a unique pool of labour at hand, without the burden of transport. Having the labourers beautify the borders of their own property (on their off hours) would be a pleasant civic virtue. Picturesque elements, like moats stocked with alligators, could even be an attraction for children.
Hospitals are always looking for trial subjects. That, or the shell-shocked, incorrigible, infirm and fairly willing to die could be made into glue, lampshades and unique local tchotkes.

Since people's hearts are not made of stone, programs would be in place by which a family can buy out a good, reformed capture and take him on as a servant. Others, more well off and posessed of superhuman graciousness, may choose to simply buy the freedom of those who have proven themselves redeemed.
Others may want to look at the 'build your very own friendly helper' program - for themselves, or as a contribution to finance. This starts with an individual's past profile and builds on it with selections from a range of assistive corporal punishments, electroconvulsive and surgical therapies, and pharmaceutical steerings (all via corporate testing). These, in combination with varying levels of solitary and group therapies, variegated work severities and reconditioning, can produce a non-stop worker bee that's as friendly as a bunny.

Since it's a matter of faith that the nuclear family is the primary unit of society - and the only producer of self-control and responsibility - it makes sense that errant families be morally disciplined to the same extent as their laxness regarding their vagrant members. Family members who have let their offspring go bad could be tracked down and charged for upkeep. That would reduce the pressure on the first two solutions and also be a practical way to restore the ties that bind. Legal punitive measures for all based on any new infractions of the one would provide a tidy enforcement of 'self-responsibility' - a quality sadly in decline in today's permissive society.
A tidy profit could be made by entrepeneurs willing to use a computer tracking system to legally enforce family ties and prescribe mandatory legal solutions.

Faith-based organizations offer unique perspectives on treatment and norms for pathologies that have not been fully utilized in Canada to the extent that they have been in the United States. For instance, a restored Christian Women's Temperance Union, or Orange Lodge, could help keep an eye on things with computerized filing on all it's subjects, and door-to-door upkeep. With the eye of the state removed from oversight on how private religious organizations operate and finance themselves, enlightened exploitation of possibilities for universal financial gain would be just around the corner.

If these meagre suggestions were implemented, I'm sure Nathan Phillips square would be cleared in a human heartbeat. Dundas and Sherbourne would blossom like a flower in the wilderness, and Toronto would wear the gleaming crown if civic virtue once again. Now, after that, if we could just do something about the Irish.

I don't quite follow you...
 
It's a solution to homelessness (as well as panhandling, indigence and slovenliness) that involves no tax dollars, helps corporate profits and would rid the city of the poor virtually overnight.

I was being sarcastical. Slovenliness. There's a new one. Did you learn that word from one of the Ford brothers?
 
Condovo, w/friends and defenders in this thread like Automation Gallery and Nads Gone Bads, you don't need enemies.
 
Perhaps it is you that's sheltered from the real world. I live downtown and take the TTC everyday. Unlike suburbanites and car-drivers who whiz in and out of the core at their convenience - and romanticize the homeless accordingly - I see the homeless up close, as a pedestrian, engaged in drug-dealing; aggressive panhandling of tourists, the disabled and the elderly; spitting in TTC drivers' faces; smoking crack in broad daylight; urinating and defecating on sidewalks; weaving in and out of heavy traffic in drug-induced stupor. The list goes on and on. I've seen dirty needles and used condoms in Nathan Phillips Square. I and others I know, also downtown residents, have been intimidated and accosted by homeless people in the square.
Romanticizing homelessness? Are you kidding?
I lived at Yonge & Bloor for 12 years and then in the Church-Wellesley Village for the last 13 or 14 years now plus I work downtown so I walk, cycle or take TTC since I sold my useless, money-sucking car in the mid-90's. I walk at all times of the day and night and have only ever had two problems on the street. I am extremely observant of what and who is around me and have only ever seen the occasional aggressive panhandler, urinating in public does happen, it is indeed a somewhat regular occurrence in some neighbourhoods to see the odd person stumbling around drunk or stoned and sometimes dealing drugs out in the open. People who display this type of behavior is either because of mental illness (as discussed ad nauseam) or likely because of a major event in their life which lead to alcohol, drugs, perhaps crime and then addiction. There are some dangerous people out there too, any number of reasons can lead to that however from my eyes you are making things sound worse than they really are in Toronto.
I can speak from first hand experience of what happens when brain neurons overload and criss-cross. I had a full-out nervous breakdown in 1996 followed by major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and eventually hospitalization. I am anything but sheltered or naive on this issue. I've seen and lived both sides of the world working in a high paid executive position to a moment in July of 1996 when something in my brain broke and I was unable to perform the most basic task of picking up the telephone to call for help. Thanks to medication, good benefits, great Doctors, friends and family I recovered and eventually picked up the pieces of my life. I was one of the lucky one's however I could have easily ended up one of those people you dislike so much sleeping in NPS at night. My job was extremely stressful, I worked long hours and had lost two people that year who were very close to me but let me assure you, I never saw it coming, it just hit me like a train from out of nowhere.
All that said, I learned to have a great deal of sympathy for the sad, untold stories of these people who walk and sleep in the streets and who didn't have the very best of care and support that I was fortunate enough to have had. I saw even sadder things that cannot even be spoken of when I was is a lock-down which still haunt me today. Many of these people are unable to help themselves because of mental illness or addiction and there simply aren't enough resources (housing, clinical beds, wellness programs etc.) to treat and look after them long-term. As Canadians I believe that the majority of us have the compassion and feel a sense of duty to look after the less fortunate segment of our society and not follow the right-wing Harper mindset of building super-jails to remove them from our view.
And never think it can't happen to you.
 
You can't argue with people from the left because their arguments are usually emotionally based. They ignore facts when they don't mesh with their ideas of what is good.

Actually, you can't reason with people on the current "right" because they tend to rate high in sociopathic traits such as selfishness, narcissism, and lack of empathy -- meaning their brains are actually not wired for being reasoned with. They also tend to be shallow and emotionally stunted, and have a host of other problems as well.

For example: the moniker "nads gone bads" is a rather telling allusion to impotence.
 
It's hard many times to argue with people from either side. I have my problems with those from the left and the right for basically the same reason. Both sides tend to skew the facts and play games.
 
dt_toronto_geek,

Thank you for your story. Spending upwards of $45 million to gave the square a fashion makeover while legions of homeless continue to sleep therein is no way for Canadians to show compassion or a sense of duty to the less fortunate in our society.
 
dt_toronto_geek,

Thank you for your story. Spending upwards of $45 million to gave the square a fashion makeover while legions of homeless continue to sleep therein is no way for Canadians to show compassion or a sense of duty to the less fortunate in our society.

You still haven't offered a solution as how to deal with them.

You can't argue with people from the left because their arguments are usually emotionally based. They ignore facts when they don't mesh with their ideas of what is good.
Stop the teachings of evolution- they make me uncomfortable!
Ban all gays! They're going to harm my children!
Muslims? My gut says they have a secret agenda...to take over the world!
Intellectuals? Their dribble has no relevance to my daily life- they're elitists!
An innocent bystander arrested by accident? Gosh, they should have stayed at home!

No, the right is as equally guilty of emotionally-based thinking as the left. After all, why do we have Ford as mayor when some people warned that his plan didn't add up financially?
 
^EXactly, he got in purely on the "angry white man" stuff that is very similar to teabaggers ideology in the states. If fact the entire tea party movement is basically based on emotion. I only see compromise attempts coming from those on the left. If the left is guilty of anything its not being emotional enough and giving in to easily to bullshit spewed constantly from the right. Nads gone bads is way off and very sensationalist.
 
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^EXactly, he got in purely on the "angry white man" stuff that is very similar to teabaggers ideology in the states. If fact the entire tea party movement is basically based on emotion. I only see compromise attempts coming from those on the left. If the left is guilty of anything its not being emotional enough and giving in to easily to bullshit spewed constantly from the right. Nads gone bads is way off and very sensationalist.


I think the appeal of Rob Ford to many is that he isn't an intellectual. His supporters probably feel like they could just shoot the shit with him. And the fact that he actually returns phone calls, personally, is refreshing and unexpected of a mayor of a major city. Small things like that can go a long way. I think a large segment of Torontonians were sick of self proclaimed urban experts running the city and telling people how to live, especially since most of Toronto's population isn't urban. People in the burbs live differently then those downtown. Ford doesn't even feel like a politician compared to the rest of council. Many can relate to him because he's a regular guy who is very fond of Cheetos and Twix bars. His charm and pretty boy looks don't hurt either. What city council truly needs is to take some Second City courses. With improv you have to work together with your partners. You can't refuse to follow where they take the topic at hand. It would be very beneficial for everyone at City Hall to partake and learn how to put differences aside. They should also listen to the message in this song.

[video=youtube;oXo6G5mfmro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXo6G5mfmro[/video]
 
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^^ Yes, I think Ford's appeal is that he makes everyone believe, "Hey, if that dumb fuck can become mayor, why can't I? I'm smarter than he is."
 
You still haven't offered a solution as how to deal with them.

The social contract governing NPS has been abused and broken. Consequently, just like the Podium Green Roof above, the square below should have designated hours of operation. It should be open 365 days a year, 20 hours a day. From 1:30 AM to 5:30 AM it should be closed, except for special events like Nuit Blanche or by special permit. City Hall staff and maintenance workers should have 24 hour access. The square should be defined as encompassing the entire area from the inner edge of the surrounding sidewalk to the property line of Osgoode Hall and the law courts. Two police officers should patrol the square on foot and fine and/or remove loiterers at their discretion.
 

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