[Automation Gallery]

^^ Yes, I think Ford's appeal is that he makes everyone believe, "Hey, if that dumb fuck can become mayor, why can't I? I'm smarter than he is."

For crying out loud...education means squat, if you're a dipstick with no manners.
Anyways back to the topic, seems like this re-development at NPS has done very little to make it more people-friendly and a better place than say, 10 years ago.....

 

[ProjectEnd]

The social contract governing NPS has been abused and broken. Consequently, just like the Podium Green Roof above, the square below should have designated hours of operation. It should be open 365 days a year, 20 hours a day. From 1:30 AM to 5:30 AM it should be closed, except for special events like Nuit Blanche or by special permit. City Hall staff and maintenance workers should have 24 hour access. The square should be defined as encompassing the entire area from the inner edge of the surrounding sidewalk to the property line of Osgoode Hall and the law courts. Two police officers should patrol the square on foot and fine and/or remove loiterers at their discretion.

This odd defense of the overpolicing of public space misses the thrust of jje1000's point.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Considering all the riff raff, why not just gate it and shut it down for the night...it wouldn't be a first.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

No, never! Closing it to the public from late night to early morning and having a security guard or two patrolling is one possible solution, but don't gate the Square. That would send such an unwelcome, oppressive statement that we certainly don't want in Canada, let alone Toronto.

 

[Northern Magus]

The social contract governing NPS has been abused and broken. Consequently, just like the Podium Green Roof above, the square below should have designated hours of operation. It should be open 365 days a year, 20 hours a day. From 1:30 AM to 5:30 AM it should be closed, except for special events like Nuit Blanche or by special permit. City Hall staff and maintenance workers should have 24 hour access. The square should be defined as encompassing the entire area from the inner edge of the surrounding sidewalk to the property line of Osgoode Hall and the law courts. Two police officers should patrol the square on foot and fine and/or remove loiterers at their discretion.

Seriously, what kind of laughable horse**** are you trying to flog here in your pathetic attempts at demonizing and hounding the homeless?

"Social contract governing NPS"? I can't decide what's more hilarious: the ridiculous Angry White Man bile you keep spewing, or the sheer ignorance you clearly have of political and legal theory in your attempts to justify a position steeped in hate.

Or, for that matter, the fact that you're actually suggesting police state measures to stomp the problem of homelessness under the table. After all, after you hound all the homeless from NPS, where do you really going to think they're going to go? And how many more locked gates will we end up with as your ludicrous plan stumbles towards it's (il)logical conclusion?

Like I said, it really does take a special kind of loser to go after the most vulnerable among us with the degree of contempt you clearly have. So congratulations on your remarkable achievement.

 

[lovarkitec]

Romanticizing homelessness? Are you kidding?
I lived at Yonge & Bloor for 12 years and then in the Church-Wellesley Village for the last 13 or 14 years now plus I work downtown so I walk, cycle or take TTC since I sold my useless, money-sucking car in the mid-90's. I walk at all times of the day and night and have only ever had two problems on the street. I am extremely observant of what and who is around me and have only ever seen the occasional aggressive panhandler, urinating in public does happen, it is indeed a somewhat regular occurrence in some neighbourhoods to see the odd person stumbling around drunk or stoned and sometimes dealing drugs out in the open. People who display this type of behavior is either because of mental illness (as discussed ad nauseam) or likely because of a major event in their life which lead to alcohol, drugs, perhaps crime and then addiction. There are some dangerous people out there too, any number of reasons can lead to that however from my eyes you are making things sound worse than they really are in Toronto.
I can speak from first hand experience of what happens when brain neurons overload and criss-cross. I had a full-out nervous breakdown in 1996 followed by major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and eventually hospitalization. I am anything but sheltered or naive on this issue. I've seen and lived both sides of the world working in a high paid executive position to a moment in July of 1996 when something in my brain broke and I was unable to perform the most basic task of picking up the telephone to call for help. Thanks to medication, good benefits, great Doctors, friends and family I recovered and eventually picked up the pieces of my life. I was one of the lucky one's however I could have easily ended up one of those people you dislike so much sleeping in NPS at night. My job was extremely stressful, I worked long hours and had lost two people that year who were very close to me but let me assure you, I never saw it coming, it just hit me like a train from out of nowhere.
All that said, I learned to have a great deal of sympathy for the sad, untold stories of these people who walk and sleep in the streets and who didn't have the very best of care and support that I was fortunate enough to have had. I saw even sadder things that cannot even be spoken of when I was is a lock-down which still haunt me today. Many of these people are unable to help themselves because of mental illness or addiction and there simply aren't enough resources (housing, clinical beds, wellness programs etc.) to treat and look after them long-term. As Canadians I believe that the majority of us have the compassion and feel a sense of duty to look after the less fortunate segment of our society and not follow the right-wing Harper mindset of building super-jails to remove them from our view.
And never think it can't happen to you.

this quote says more about 'urban issues' than most of what has ever been posted here, yet no one has responded to it. thanks for sharing your life experiences and helping all of us to understand how vulnerable people are and what actually happens to many homeless people.... you are indeed right, without supports, more vulnerable people will end up on the streets of our city - turn to the US and have a good look gang.... that is what happens when societies have 1) a huge gap between rich and poor and 2) reduce their social safety nets to ridiculously low levels. Lark

 

[condovo]

Seriously, what kind of laughable horse**** are you trying to flog here in your pathetic attempts at demonizing and hounding the homeless?

"Social contract governing NPS"? I can't decide what's more hilarious: the ridiculous Angry White Man bile you keep spewing, or the sheer ignorance you clearly have of political and legal theory in your attempts to justify a position steeped in hate.

Or, for that matter, the fact that you're actually suggesting police state measures to stomp the problem of homelessness under the table. After all, after you hound all the homeless from NPS, where do you really going to think they're going to go? And how many more locked gates will we end up with as your ludicrous plan stumbles towards it's (il)logical conclusion?

Like I said, it really does take a special kind of loser to go after the most vulnerable among us with the degree of contempt you clearly have. So congratulations on your remarkable achievement.

I won't be intimidated by your hostility and insults. You want to defend the status quo and have the homeless take over the square every night until the end of time, effectively pushing out everyone else? Fine. But do so civilly.

Closing the square for 4 hours a day doesn't make Toronto a police state. You're just being hysterical. Lot's of public places have designated hours of operation, including the adjoining Podium Green Roof. The square should too.

This odd defense of the overpolicing of public space misses the thrust of jje1000's point.

The current state of the square suggests that it's under-policed. Two police officers walking the beat in the square is not over-policing.

Through the night, beginning at around 11pm to about midnight, the square is no longer for everyone, as jje1000 presumes. It's transformed into an open-air homeless shelter. All other citizens, and visitors, are essentially excluded. Putting in a few rules, such as hours of operation, would redress the balance.

No, never! Closing it to the public from late night to early morning and having a security guard or two patrolling is one possible solution, but don't gate the Square. That would send such an unwelcome, oppressive statement that we certainly don't want in Canada, let alone Toronto.

Hours of operation should be prominently displayed and enforced with proper policing, not gates. But if barriers should prove necessary, as with the Podium Green Roof, in they go.

 

[Homer]

I find it interesting that in our society, mental and other issues can leed a person to be homeless and or suicidal yet if a person goes to a bridge and looks like they may jump off it, a witness can call the police and they will come and can physically restrain the person from jumping and the person via the hospital can get referred for treatment. If that same person however goes to the bridge and sits on the sidewalk (even in the middle of winter) the police can do nothing because the person has the freedom to sit (and freeze to death) on the sidewalk. Anytime someone has proposed arresting a person on the street, the left has cried that jail is no place for homeless person. What is wrong with a person spending a night or two in jail untill they can get transfered to a treatment facility. Yes I realize we need the facilities but that is a different issue to worked out.

 

[EMP1729]

Everyone keeps asking about New York City, here is an interesting article about the last homeless person in Times Square, and what they did to reduce the numbers of homeless in Times Square.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/nyregion/30heavy.html

The article is from 2010, and I could not find a follow up if the guy is still there. Also, keep in mind that the overall homeless problem has not been solved. There are still record numbers of homeless right now in New York City.

 

[Northern Magus]

You want to defend the status quo and have the homeless take over the square every night until the end of time, effectively pushing out everyone else?

You're just being hysterical.

Quoted for supreme irony.

 

[hawc]

Like getting them homes?

If you just 'give' them homes they won't look after them and they'll been dumps within a few years. People only look after what they've earned, not what they're given. Harsh but true. Anyway, if there were a solution to this problem we'd have found it by now.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Who is 'they'- anybody who is without a home address? The circumstances people find themselves in by being homeless varies considerably, I would wager that many people who don't currently have a permanent address would welcome one with great deal of appreciation and pride. I think the real failure here are from those who have had better fortune in their lives- myself included. There is no simple solution, but I do know being dismissive or direspectful of a group of people, who find themsleves at a vulnerable point in their lives, really does nothing for anybody.

 

[fouronesix]

People only look after what they've earned, not what they're given. Harsh but true. Anyway, if there were a solution to this problem we'd have found it by now.

In essence, a firm belief in the merit of entrepreneurialism coupled with a wholehearted rejection of the possibility for innovation. This is what life would be like if pick-up truck commercials were a completely accurate reflection of reality. Men doing things, but not thinking too hard about them.

 

[grey]

http://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.c...-the-sun-got-it-wrong-on-poverty-panhandling/

Thread Destroyed.

 

[Northern Magus]

Only for rational people.

I hadn't realized that our mouth breather was just a right wing automaton who simply regurgitates whatever he reads in the Sun.

Figures.