[spider]

I notice references to "regions" appearing in the discussion about my suggestion on how to raise Transit funding. I didn't mention regions or adjoining municipalities in my proposal specifically because the idea is to raise all of the money IN Toronto exclusively.

 

[TOareaFan]

If one owns an automobile in downtown Toronto, one would most likely use it less. Yet, according to this old story about car insurance (see this link), owning a car in an old Toronto address (using the postal code) will cost more in insurance than one outside of Toronto.

You would think that using the car less should result in lower insurance for that car, using the postal code as a guide.

I just wonder if the 905 drivers who have collisions inside Toronto are the ones who jack up the insurance costs for the 416 drivers. And get away with it, since they drive more. Maybe it is because there is less car ownership, hence the higher the insurance rates?

Maybe the province should add a fee based on where the postal code of where they are most likely to use their car more. That fee should then go towards transit improvements, and for 911 and EMS services. The more transit improvements in a postal code, the less the fee.

But that article notes that Mississauga is 5% higher than downtown Toronto and from other things I have read Brampton is the most expensive place in the Province to insure a car.....i know the guy in the office next to mine who lives in Oakville pays about 20% less than I do (comparable cars, both with a teenage daughter and both with the same insurer).

 

[11th]

While this is technically true, such a notion is impossible to sell in rural Ontario ridings. Hell freezes over before those voters agree to tax themselves more to help Torontonians pay for transit expansion.

Then in a way, they want the GTA to pay for their own infrastructure, so that the GTA can be more productive and send more tax dollars to them.
(I'm assuming the GTA does send more dollars to the rest of the province than they get in return)

 

[Rainforest]

Then in a way, they want the GTA to pay for their own infrastructure, so that the GTA can be more productive and send more tax dollars to them.
(I'm assuming the GTA does send more dollars to the rest of the province than they get in return)

Yes, you can put it this way.

However, in a pooled revenue system it is hard to determine unambiguously who subsidizes whom. Each group of residents / taxpayers can find arguments in their favor. For example, rural voters could point out that residents of big cities enjoy better access to museums (simply because they live closer), while all provincial taxpayers share a subsidy for them.

But more importantly, overhauling the established funding arrangements is extremely difficult, even if such arrangements are somewhat unfair.

Regional (GTA) based transit taxes fees is the only way to get any transit expansion in the foreseeable future.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Ontario rolling out HOV road toll to help pay for transit overhaul

Ontario will take a big step toward dedicating long-term funding for transit construction by bringing in a limited system of road tolls.

The plan, to be unveiled in Thursday’s provincial budget, would allow solo drivers to use high-occupancy vehicle lanes on Toronto-area expressways in exchange for paying a toll. The lanes would remain free for vehicles with two or more people.

The money raised would help pay for the Big Move, a provincial strategy to build a network of badly-needed subways, light rail lines and dedicated bus corridors across Greater Toronto and Hamilton.

It is all part of a long-term, $35-billion infrastructure-building plan that will be highlighted in the budget.

“As we make these investments, we also need to maintain them. We need to make sure there’s a sufficient amount of resources to expand and make it more effective for all of us,†Finance Minister Charles Sousa said, describing HOV tolls as “a voluntary mechanism by which to allow people a choice, we’re giving them that choice.â€

Later this month, provincial transit agency Metrolinx will outline a series of possible taxes, tolls and other fees to help pay for transit. But the government, which has made transit-building a priority, will move more quickly than that.

The lanes will take some time to set up, as the government must acquire transponders and other equipment for them.

And because they will be voluntary, they are not expected to raise all the revenue needed for transit construction. Metrolinx estimates it will need $2-billion annually to implement the Big Move.

Putting the revenue tool in the budget could be a risky move. The third-party New Democrats, whose support will determine whether the minority Liberal administration lives, have advocated against road tolls to pay for transit. Instead, they say, a bigger burden could be placed on large corporations.

“We do have big concerns with this signalling that the government continues to bring forward that they’re happy with people paying more and more and more, while they’re also happy with having corporations paying less and less and less and they’re happy with CEO salaries going higher and higher and higher,†NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said Wednesday.

However, she said she would wait to read the budget before making any decisions on it.

The Liberals have said that Ms. Horwath and others who want to avoid new taxes and tolls, such as Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, are wrong to think it is possible to build new transit without such revenue streams.

Mr. Sousa’s budget is expected to put an emphasis on building infrastructure. On top of the Big Move, it will also contain money to fix roads and bridges in rural communities.

The Liberals have already met several NDP budget demands, in whole or in part, including cutting auto insurance and creating a program to help young people find work.

Source: National Post

.

 

[nfitz]

I'm scared to think how much infrastructure, software, and overhead they have to install, to collect a relatively modest amount of money. Hopefully the come to their senses when they see a detailed estimate to do this.

 

[rbt]

I'm scared to think how much infrastructure, software, and overhead they have to install, to collect a relatively modest amount of money. Hopefully the come to their senses when they see a detailed estimate to do this.

It reads to me as an attempt to accelerate tolling for some larger portion of the GTA without saying as much.

Laying the network, power, etc. for one lane can be very cheaply extended to all lanes.

Research into vendors of toll equipment, central payment control (integration with Presto?), payment handing, etc. is suitable for HOV lanes or a much wider deployment.

It is expensive for just HOV lanes but I'm content to see where it leads. I was really hoping Metrolinx would get a few extra abilities directly (borrowing, GTA taxation); but oh well.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I have a feeling the taxes will pass this summer. I doubt they will wait for the 2014 budget to put it forward.. I hope they "begin" January 1st 2014, allowing for the cash to start flowing and the projects to start. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it haha. With every passing day they seem to get more and more likely to happen.. So we will see.

 

[dunkalunk]

It reads to me as an attempt to accelerate tolling for some larger portion of the GTA without saying as much.

Laying the network, power, etc. for one lane can be very cheaply extended to all lanes.

Research into vendors of toll equipment, central payment control (integration with Presto?), payment handing, etc. is suitable for HOV lanes or a much wider deployment.

It is expensive for just HOV lanes but I'm content to see where it leads. I was really hoping Metrolinx would get a few extra abilities directly (borrowing, GTA taxation); but oh well.

I really like this point and I hope this is the direction the province plans to take on tolls. At is has been said, the ROI is not that great for HOT lanes. I do wonder though if the painted lines for the HOT lanes would remain after a 400-series highway was converted. Would there be any advantage to having just a regular HOV lane on a tolled road?

 

[gweed123]

It reads to me as an attempt to accelerate tolling for some larger portion of the GTA without saying as much.

Laying the network, power, etc. for one lane can be very cheaply extended to all lanes.

Research into vendors of toll equipment, central payment control (integration with Presto?), payment handing, etc. is suitable for HOV lanes or a much wider deployment.

It is expensive for just HOV lanes but I'm content to see where it leads. I was really hoping Metrolinx would get a few extra abilities directly (borrowing, GTA taxation); but oh well.

Hopefully this will eventually lead into something like my HWAH (Highway Within a Highway) proposal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/HWAH.pdf

 

[W. K. Lis]

In the late 1960's, Bloor Street West between Jane Street and Runnymede Avenue was getting depressed because of the subway construction and the lure of suburban malls. Then the shop-owners got together to discuss how to fight the them. The Bloor West Village Business Improvement Area was formed. However, to do the fight, with marketing and fixing the neighbourhood furniture, lighting, and appearance, they needed money.

The malls paid for their marketing and appearance through rent dollars from the stores. So Canada's first BIA had the city collect a levy from the store owners to help pay for the marketing and improvements. I am sure that some store-owners resisted paying extra. However, the result was that it was successful.

Other BIA's around Toronto (Canada and elsewhere worldwide) followed suit. They also collected a levy to pay for marketing and improvements. We wouldn't have a "Taste of the Danforth", "Roncesvalles Polish Festival" or other street festivals without an additional levy being collected in those neighbourhoods.

I think that transit funding, in whatever form, is needed. It will improve public transit by providing rapid transit all over Toronto, not just a few fortunate neighbourhoods. It will, to me at least, be like those BIA levy collected by the city, but going to the betterment of the city all over.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, quick question to anyone that knows, are the new proposed HOV/HOT lanes lane additions or conversions of existing lanes. Particularly (for personal reasons) the proposed HOV/HOT lanes on the stretch of 410 between Queen Street in Brampton and the 401.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Any headline that begins with "Mayor Food loses" must contain good news. This is no exception:

Mayor Ford loses fight to defer transit tax debate

Toronto city councillors have trumped Mayor Rob Ford’s efforts to delay a debate on transit funding, with two-thirds voting to put the contentious topic on the council floor this week.

The move, introduced by TTC commissioner and city councillor John Parker, passed by the slimmest of margins Tuesday morning in a 27 to 13 vote, with five councillors not in the chamber. The debate will take place at some later point during the two or three day meeting.

“I think it is important that city council have an opportunity to represent the city’s interests when we talk about raising revenue,” TTC Chair Karen Stintz said after the vote.

A city report on new tolls and taxes to fund transit expansion was deferred by the mayor’s executive committee for one month. Provincial transit agency Metrolinx is expected to give its recommendations to the Ontario government on new revenue sources for transit at the end of May. The delay requested by the mayor meant that Toronto council would not meet the deadline to have its input reflected in those recommendations.

“It was six members of the executive committee that voted to defer and it was council as a whole that said no this debate is important,” Ms. Stintz said.

Key among those votes was Scarborough councillor Gary Crawford, one of the six members of the executive who voted for the delay, but switched his vote to support bringing the debate to the council floor.

The vote to put transit funding on the council agenda is just the first hurdle. There is no assurance that the 27 councillors who agreed to have the debate will support new tolls and taxes or come to an agreement about which ones they support.

“Debate is one thing. Voting for new taxes is another,” Councillor Doug Ford said. He said he and his brother the mayor will respect the will of council and will use the debate to argue against new taxes.

“What they want the public to do is hand over a blank cheque to the most irresponsible government this province has ever seen and blindly raise taxes of the people of Ontario,” he said.

Deputy Mayor Doug Holyday agreed, saying by discussing new fees and tolls the city was offering the province “political cover” for raising taxes.

Several councillors, including Ms. Stintz, also are hoping to tie the funding debate to plans to reopen discussions about a Scarborough subway – another issue on which council is divided.

Ms. Stintz and a group of Scarborough councillors are pushing to replace the Scarborough Rapid Transit line with an extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway, rather than light rail as planned. She said a vote on a “scope change” for the Scarborough line will be introduced as part of the debate.

Ms. Stintz said it is important for council to have the funding debate in order to represent the interests of residents and Toronto businesses to the province. While she said some measures Metrolinx is considering, such as parking levies, would hurt businesses, she is open to considering others.

“A sales tax, or a fuel tax or increased development fees, I think there is merit in looking at those.”

Source: NP

Good job TO City Council

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Staff report:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-57594.pdf

AoD

 

[Southcore]

Here are some tweets from a National Post reporter:

@nataliealcoba: Council supports dedicated revenues to be implement by the province to fund Big Move.

Ok sounds good. Go on....

@nataliealcoba: City council votes to tell the province it DOES NOT support 10 revenue tools, including: congestion levy, employer payroll tax, land transfer tax, land value capture, personal income tax, property tax, transit fare, utility bill levy, gas tax, parking levy

So sales tax, gas tax and parking levy are still a go?