[nfitz]

Kinda. Either they put $923M into VIA or they put a negative amount into VIA. The projects they cancelled when taking office were larger than the portion they eventually, half a decade later, funded.

I thought Prime Minister Martin cancelled most of that stuff ... who coincidentally owned the competing bus line ...

 

[rbt]

I thought Prime Minister Martin cancelled most of that stuff ... who coincidentally owned the competing bus line ...

/digs

You are correct. Martin killed the capital package, Harper slashed the operations budget though that was much more recent.

Almost every administration kills one type of VIA funding or another.

 

[ssiguy2]

Cons also gave Toronto funds for Spadina ext and $300 million Sheppard............it's not their fault Toronto hasn't got around to spending it.

They also helped fund the Canada Line, Calgary West LRT, Winnipeg Transitway, Edmonton LRT north extension, and Miss Transitway. The Liberals did absolutely nothing while in power except make promises for projects but always forgetting to cut the cheque after the media announcement. They also brought in the transit tax deduction.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Harper and the boys but the Liberals did squat and the Cons have been the best thing to happen to Canadian cities in over a generation.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At the end of the day, Toronto has dithered and changed and fought while the TTC languishes. Toronto needs to smarten up and do something before we reach critical mass.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Toronto has the third most used transit system on the continent (behind NYC and Mexico), and yet out RT/LRT system is tiny. Montreal's RT system is now slightly larger than ours, and Vancouver is just behind. An extra $20 Billion in investments, in addition to the $8 Billion from Metrolinx could go a very long way to improve things. It's unfortunate that Council has little political will to do what the vast majority of Torontonians agree is needed.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Toronto has the third most used transit system on the continent (behind NYC and Mexico), and yet out RT/LRT system is tiny. Montreal's RT system is now slightly larger than ours, and Vancouver is just behind. An extra $20 Billion in investments, in addition to the $8 Billion from Metrolinx could go a very long way to improve things. It's unfortunate that Council has little political will to do what the vast majority of Torontonians agree is needed.

That's the shame. The demand outstrips the supply.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's the shame. The demand outstrips the supply.

That's not just a shame. It's absolutely infuriating. The solution to what is the biggest problem in the region is so blatantly obvious. Raise taxes a little, perhaps add some road tolls and we could easily generate the $20 Billion or so to build a RT/LRT system that would easily provide excellent transit coverage across the whole city for the foreseeable future. And even after those relatively small tax increases, we'd would still maintain our ridiculously low taxation rate. This isn't a hard problem to solve, at all. But as long as we keep electing politicians who don't care about actually solving issues, but are instead focused on winning the next election, that will never happen.

 

[Johnny Au]

That's not just a shame. It's absolutely infuriating. The solution to what is the biggest problem in the region is so blatantly obvious. Raise taxes a little, perhaps add some road tolls and we could easily generate the $20 Billion or so to build a RT/LRT system that would easily provide excellent transit coverage across the whole city for the foreseeable future. And even after those relatively small tax increases, we'd would still maintain our ridiculously low taxation rate. This isn't a hard problem to solve, at all. But as long as we keep electing politicians who don't care about actually solving issues, but are instead focused on winning the next election, that will never happen.

This is why I believe in political reform. It is time to change how politics work and have more politicians who actually are willing to make life better for the people (and not be populist shills), rather than for themselves. It is time for voters to grow up and focus on building a better city, even if it would hurt them individually, it would be for the greater good.

 

[BurlOak]

That's not just a shame. It's absolutely infuriating. The solution to what is the biggest problem in the region is so blatantly obvious. Raise taxes a little, perhaps add some road tolls and we could easily generate the $20 Billion or so to build a RT/LRT system that would easily provide excellent transit coverage across the whole city for the foreseeable future. And even after those relatively small tax increases, we'd would still maintain our ridiculously low taxation rate. This isn't a hard problem to solve, at all. But as long as we keep electing politicians who don't care about actually solving issues, but are instead focused on winning the next election, that will never happen.

I have not confirmed the calculation in this article, but it seems that what funds are spent on is a big determining factor in money available for transit.

http://nationalcitizens.ca/index.ph...-liberals-and-ndp-the-tax-and-spend-coalition

This Liberal spending problem has done more damage than you may know. If spending growth had been limited to the trends of inflation and populations growth since 2003 Ontario would be facing a remarkably different situation. Ontario would be running annual surpluses of $10-billion today.

 

[TOareaFan]

That's not just a shame. It's absolutely infuriating. The solution to what is the biggest problem in the region is so blatantly obvious. Raise taxes a little, perhaps add some road tolls and we could easily generate the $20 Billion or so to build a RT/LRT system that would easily provide excellent transit coverage across the whole city for the foreseeable future. And even after those relatively small tax increases, we'd would still maintain our ridiculously low taxation rate. This isn't a hard problem to solve, at all. But as long as we keep electing politicians who don't care about actually solving issues, but are instead focused on winning the next election, that will never happen.

This is why I believe in political reform. It is time to change how politics work and have more politicians who actually are willing to make life better for the people (and not be populist shills), rather than for themselves. It is time for voters to grow up and focus on building a better city, even if it would hurt them individually, it would be for the greater good.

ok, i'll bite.....what democratic system creates politicians that don't worry about their re-election?

 

[gweed123]

ok, i'll bite.....what democratic system creates politicians that don't worry about their re-election?

The problem is that transit is still in the hands of the politicians... Hopefully with a dedicated revenue stream and a more assertive Metrolinx politicians can be at least an arm's length away from having any influence over transit decisions.

 

[ssiguy2]

That's not just a shame. It's absolutely infuriating. The solution to what is the biggest problem in the region is so blatantly obvious. Raise taxes a little, perhaps add some road tolls and we could easily generate the $20 Billion or so to build a RT/LRT system that would easily provide excellent transit coverage across the whole city for the foreseeable future. And even after those relatively small tax increases, we'd would still maintain our ridiculously low taxation rate. This isn't a hard problem to solve, at all. But as long as we keep electing politicians who don't care about actually solving issues, but are instead focused on winning the next election, that will never happen.

$20 billion............are you kidding?
Toronto only needs about $2 billion to cover the entire city with REAL mass/rapid transit and not the stop-at-every-light-and-every 2-blocks LRT plan which is neither rapid nor mass. Toronto has a huge amount of infrastructure already in place but refuses to use it for only reasons the creator knows.

Toronto has hydro corridors itching for cheap BRT routes, freeways wide enough to accommodate HOV/bus-only lanes, and most importantly a massive rail network that most cities on the planet would give their left nut to have. Toronto has a huge rail network most of which is now totally grade separated and is owned by the metro transit authority and yet Toronto doesn't use, quite literally, one foot of it but no one seems to know why.

Toronto's rail corridors spread from Union to every area of the city and all many of the needed stations are already built. Some sections would require twinning and some land acquisition and certainly electrification but the basis of a rapid transit system is already there. No endless environmental reviews or consultants as the corridors are already being used for transit but only for people in the far flung 905 and opposed to the people that actually live in the city itself. As I stated before, @2 billion would electrify nearly the entire GO system within the city and by purchasing the 50 mketer Bombardier non-proprietary LRT's that run on street and on normal rail tracks, the city could have a massive system up and running as soon as the trains arrive.

That $2 billion could electrify the system with GO chipping in, buy an entire fleet of trains, and the garage/maintenance centre to serve them. Add a $100 million for BRT along the Hydro corridors and Toronto would have a huge system at a tenth the price of the $20 billion figure and could be up and running in a few years. Instead of this Toronto wants to spend $2 billion on an underground subway in the burbs for 6 km of track to replace a functioning RT.

Toronto is very odd because lack of money is not it's main problem but rather lack of will, inertia, poor transit planning, refusal to look at alternative options, and treating GO like it serves Cleveland and not Toronto.

Toronto already has a huge rapid/mass transit system up and running, it's a shame they don't let the citizens use it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

$20 billion............are you kidding?
Toronto only needs about $2 billion to cover the entire city with REAL mass/rapid transit

$2 Billion? Considering that the Bloor-Yonge upgrades alone will cost us $1 Billion, I seriously doubt that we could cover the city in "REAL" mass/rapid for $2 Billion. I'd love to know how you plan to scrape even half of the DRL (Pape to Dunds West) with the remaining $1 Billion.

and not the stop-at-every-light-and-every 2-blocks LRT plan which is neither rapid nor mass.

LRT does not stop-at-every-light-and-every-2-blocks. You seem to be getting them confused with streetcars.

Toronto has a huge amount of infrastructure already in place but refuses to use it for only reasons the creator knows.

Imaginary infrastructure doesnt count.

Toronto has hydro corridors itching for cheap BRT routes, freeways wide enough to accommodate HOV/bus-only lanes

I love how you just went on about how LRT "stop-at-every-light-and-every 2-blocks" and is "neither rapid nor mass" and then you go on to recommend that Toronto use BRT. Don't get me wrong, BRT would be great in some areas of the city. Just pointing out the irony.

Toronto has a huge rail network most of which is now totally grade separated and is owned by the metro transit authority and yet Toronto doesn't use, quite literally, one foot of it but no one seems to know why.

We agree here.

As I stated before, @2 billion would electrify nearly the entire GO system within the city and by purchasing the 50 mketer Bombardier non-proprietary LRT's that run on street and on normal rail tracks, the city could have a massive system up and running as soon as the trains arrive.

Your goal seems to build cheap transit. Cheap transit =/= good transit. Even if we were to use every rail corridor for transit, there'd be massive gaps in the system. And then there's the issue with building transit in the least dense parts of the city that would almost surely attract low ridership (aka rail corridors)

That $2 billion could electrify the system with GO chipping in, buy an entire fleet of trains, and the garage/maintenance centre to serve them.

Questionable, but I'll play along.

Add a $100 million for BRT along the Hydro corridors and Toronto would have a huge system at a tenth the price of the $20 billion figure and could be up and running in a few years.

Yeah, because building transit 0.5 km away from anywhere anybody would want to go is a really great way to encourage transit ridership

Again, cheap transit =/= good transit.

Check out Ellesmere Station if you want to see the effects of building transit in hydro corridors, far from any major destinations.

Instead of this Toronto wants to spend $2 billion on an underground subway in the burbs for 6 km of track to replace a functioning RT.

Functional? The RT will be grinding to a halt in the next 2 years. That's not what I'd call "functioning".

 

[Adjei]

2 billion to cover the city in rapid transit? Is that a joke? Transit is not cheap, we need to actually spend the required money instead of looking for cheap solutions.

London is spending 15.9 billion pounds on their new crossrail initiative and they have one of the best transit systems in the world...

Paris is looking to build 200 kilometres of new subways at a cost of 32.1 billion dollars and they have one of the best transit systems in the world..

Toronto with it's shit ass transit system which would be good for a city of 500,000, and some believe we can remedy that with an investment of 2 billion..

Ya right..

 

[Adjei]

I have not confirmed the calculation in this article, but it seems that what funds are spent on is a big determining factor in money available for transit.

http://nationalcitizens.ca/index.ph...-liberals-and-ndp-the-tax-and-spend-coalition

Yeah we can get all the money we need for transit through efficiencies and cutting government waste, go ask Rob Ford how that plan went. He's now looking to go beg other levels of government for money.