[W. K. Lis]

2 billion to cover the city in rapid transit? Is that a joke? Transit is not cheap, we need to actually spend the required money instead of looking for cheap solutions.

London is spending 15.9 billion pounds on their new crossrail initiative and they have one of the best transit systems in the world...

Paris is looking to build 200 kilometres of new subways at a cost of 32.1 billion dollars and they have one of the best transit systems in the world..

Toronto with it's shit ass transport system which would be good for a city of 500,000, and some believe we can remedy that with an investment of 2 billion..

Ya right..

We could do what Stalin did. Create new laws that people would easily break. Put in minimum sentences or lengthen prison sentences. Then have them "volunteer" to work 12 hours or more a day on bread and water to dig and build the subway (metro) your leader wants, and as cheap as possible (no pay). And if they make their constantly rising quota, get a day off every 10 days (maybe, if they remember).

 

[ssiguy2]

A fleet of 100 railway running LRT using all the current GO corridors would serve every point in the city. They could use the same stations as GO but certainly many would have to be added and as I stated electrification would have to take place but plans for the 3 biggest sections, Lakeshore West/East and Kitchener to Pearson spur are already planned.

Trains could run every 5 minutes to places like Pearson, Miminco, Rouge Hill and spurs from the main corridors using the street level which they can tun along to different points like UT Scar or a spur from Kitchener up to Humber college. A line using the north corridor up along Dom Mills to Don Mills subway station is another usable option.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Electrification... $6 billion

Double tracking several hundred km of tracks.. Probably around $5 billion

5 minute service on several hundred km of track with 100 LRT cars? Haha, good joke.

Never mind the fact that LRT vehicles would never be cleared to operate on the same tracks as freight trains due to safety regulations.

 

[gweed123]

Electrification... $6 billion

Double tracking several hundred km of tracks.. Probably around $5 billion

5 minute service on several hundred km of track with 100 LRT cars? Haha, good joke.

Never mind the fact that LRT vehicles would never be cleared to operate on the same tracks as freight trains due to safety regulations.

Right on all counts.

However, I can't think of any single transit project that would benefit the outer suburban areas of Toronto more than electrification of the lines that pass through them (think specifically of Lakeshore East and Stouffville for Scarborough, Kitchener for Northern Etobicoke, and Lakeshore West for Southern Etobicoke).

Even if you simply re-allocated the existing LRT funding to electrifying those GO lines to run 15 min off-peak service and ~5 min peak service, the net benefit to the people of those areas would be enormously higher than the LRT projects currently proposed, with the exception of the Eglinton Crosstown and the replacement for the SRT, which needs to happen regardless.

 

[ssiguy2]

I am NOT talking about electrication of the whole system but rather just the GO lines in the CITY of Toronto not the GTA. Also remember that much of the electrification is already being paid for by Metrolinx along lakeshore lines and the UPX.

This service would be for Torontonians only as GO lousy/limited rail service is far too expensive for the average Torontonian especially when they can't even use their Metropass for a discount.

As for LRT's running along freight corridors well I don't see the difference between that and the UPX/O-Train vehicles. If there is a difference I'm sure they could get an exemption as Montreal is looking at a similar system as is Vancouver for it's Fraser Valley LRT. All they are is a return of the old interurbans. They are also used extensively in Western Europe so Transport Canada wouldn't be breaking any new ground here.

The UPX is already going to be a commuter rail only corridor and Lakeshore is mostly doubles. Some stations would certainly needed to be added but that could be done gradually.

This is just a "cityrail" proposal but using far more flexible and efficient vehicles and as I said, simply a return to the old interurbans. This is simply doing what the rest of the planet does that Toronto doesn't...............making use of current infrastructure.

All the dreams on the planet won't get Toronto anywhere as Queen's Park is broke. The Liberals have no more money to give, the Tories won't, and the NDP's stupid idea of making all Ontarians pay for Toronto's needs because they are too cheap to contribute anything themselves won't fly. It's about time Toronto started dealing with reality instead of making pretty coloured lines on a map for things it can't afford. They have been using that method for years and the result is 12km of rapid/mass transit in a generation.

 

[Dan416]

I am NOT talking about electrication of the whole system but rather just the GO lines in the CITY of Toronto not the GTA. Also remember that much of the electrification is already being paid for by Metrolinx along lakeshore lines and the UPX.

No one's gonna electrify the GO lines solely in the city of Toronto. That's not even where the GO lines are used. They're used mostly in the cities bordering Toronto directly than Toronto itself (Misissauga, Oakville, Brampton, in the west, I imagine Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham in the north, Ajax, Pickering, Oshawa in the east).

 

[innsertnamehere]

Large portions of the lakeshore lines ridership comes from within Toronto, but otherwise the majority comes from outside the city.

And never mind the fact that Saugus proposal would essentially screw over go transit from ever operating more than a couple of rush hour trains on any of those lines.

 

[gweed123]

I am NOT talking about electrication of the whole system but rather just the GO lines in the CITY of Toronto not the GTA. Also remember that much of the electrification is already being paid for by Metrolinx along lakeshore lines and the UPX.

Huh??? Seriously??? Why would Metrolinx bother electrifying JUST inside of Toronto? The only way Metrolinx would ever do that is if it wished to shoot it's influence over transit in the GTHA in the foot.

If you want to give a special service to Toronto, create an overlap of the longer GO lines that serves just the City of Toronto, so that the frequency on the inner portions of the lines approaches subway level frequencies. But to say "sorry, electrified service is for Toronto residents only" is a recipe for a swift kick in the butt on your way out the doorway of respectability as a transit planning/operations agency.

This service would be for Torontonians only as GO lousy/limited rail service is far too expensive for the average Torontonian especially when they can't even use their Metropass for a discount.

You seem to be really hung up on this Metropass thing. What you don't seem to recognize is that 5 years from now the Metropass as we know it will no longer exist. It will be a monthly pass that you buy as part of your Presto card. Ottawa is already phasing out monthly paper passes in favour of monthly auto-reloadable Presto passes. In another couple of years they will be a relic.

Once Presto is adopted by the TTC, there's nothing but bureaucracy stopping them from creating a co-fare arrangement with GO to let people with TTC Presto Passes use GO within Toronto's borders (any travel beyond Toronto would be taken from the ePurse, much like someone in Ottawa now can buy a regular monthly pass on Presto, and if they choose to take an express bus, the extra $1 is taken from the ePurse part of their Presto card). From there, it's not a big leap to a unified regional fare system, which would make your Metropass worry entirely obsolete.

To spend hundreds of millions if not billions extra creating an entirely new independent system from both GO and the TTC subway system just to satisfy the demands of an archaic fare system is absolutely asinine.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't understand what you guys are getting at.

All these trains would do is use the current GO tracks and they are being electrified from Hamilton to Oshawa and UPX..........what's the problem?

As far as Presto, big deal so you'll be able to buy tickets from anywhere with one pass. How does that make the fares any cheaper? So if now your GO fare is $11 and TTC $3 then when Presto {eventually} roles out you will haven the honour of paying all $14 at once.

Small wonder Toronto transit has seen zero improvement in the last 30 years, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. this is made worse by the fact that you always seem to cut every alternative proposal for some reason and then your only alternatives you come up with is how to scream at Queen's Park for money it doesn't have. Then you go back to these make believe lines on make believe maps with make believe money.

Tell me, seeing you will NEVER get the kind of money you are dreaming about how would you bring rapid transit to all areas of the city? If you think my idea is stupid then fine, let's hear your alternative.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think it has more to do with you creating a molehill out of a mountain. The amount of infrastructure required to construct what you are suggesting in reality is much larger than what you are suggesting, if it is even possible without heavily disrupting existing operations.

My alternative? The Big Move. Google it, it is pretty nice.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Insert:

I'm not a big fan of the Big Move. It's a poorly thought out plan. What I recommend is removing all rail in the city, and replacing them with personal teleporters for everyone. And best of all, I can do it for only $2 Billion

 

[ssiguy2]

Well at least that's a more intelligent comment than many of your others.

The Big Move in Toronto is Eglinton and Sheppard/Finch LRTs and neither of the last 2 are even remotely close to being RAPID transit. There is no place on the planet that has rapid transit that has to stop at red lights, wait for advanced lights, and stops every 300 meters.

The 2nd part of the Big Move is completely unfunded and Queen's Park is broke. GO expansion means nothing to Torontonians as they still can't afford it just like the UPX. No DRL, no improved rapid transit in Etob or Scar and North York gets a 5km extension.
BRT isn't world class enough and using alternative options in Toronto is a no go. After current construction people in Humber, Miminco, Malvern, or East Scar aren't going to get downtown any faster then they are now.

Again I ask, what are you alternative plans.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Big move projects in Toronto:

ECLRT
SELRT
FWLRT
DRL
Yonge North Subway Extension
Lakeshore East electrification
Lakeshore West electrification
Kitchener electrification
All Day GO on all Lines

how can Torontonians afford it less than Mississaugans or Markhamers? a lot of the Lakeshore ridership originates from within the City of Toronto's borders.

as for 100% coverage of the City, that is essentially impossible. Currently only about 20% of the city is "covered" for transit, you honestly expect to bring that to 100% with a couple billion and 10-15 years? I think the big move is amazing since it essentially brings coverage to about 80%. besides, it's not like your plan covers 100% of the city either.


Funding for the big move is set to come in the spring budget, and because Queens Park is broke, it will come in the form of new taxes.

 

[Johnny Au]

Insert:

I'm not a big fan of the Big Move. It's a poorly thought out plan. What I recommend is removing all rail in the city, and replacing them with personal teleporters for everyone. And best of all, I can do it for only $2 Billion

Count me in!

It should be rather inexpensive, is very clean, is very fast, and such. Personal teleporters also remove most instances of DNA mismatches (though it is inevitable that there are some insects and bacteria on the traveller) (read here for the horrors of teleportation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fly_(George_Langelaan)).

 

[doady]

Toronto would definitely benefit a lot from more improved GO service like we saw along Lakeshore line. But I'm not sure why it needs to be limited to the City of Toronto, or why it needs to be LRT.

But I don't think Toronto will fully benefit from GO Trains until GO starts giving discounts to pedestrians and cyclists, and make some effort to integrate their fares with the TTC, as they currently do with the local 905 systems.