GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
For some, there's more to being a good mayor than being a fiscal hawk.
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- Thread starter taal
- Start date
For some, there's more to being a good mayor than being a fiscal hawk.
nfitz
Superstar
Because some of us aren't as naive to think we can wander into a restaurant and not have to pay the bill!
I dare you to name a better leader of the megacity since Allen.
Sure, things haven't been perfect. But so much has been accomplished. How can people not see that? And some of the idiotic schemes that the current candidates are pushing. Rossi's plan to rip up all the bike lanes for example ... that just about has to be the oddest infrastructure promise of any politician since the canal from coast-to-coast.
Glen
Senior Member
Of course, but if you want to be a 'good mayor' then that entails honesty. Hiding the cost of you spending, or shifting it forward is not honest. He wants to take credit for the spending but not the taxing.
nfitz
Superstar
I think Miller has been pretty up front about spending and taxing. You've seen your extra taxes for your car. You are well aware there are extra taxes when you sell your house. And you've seen your tax bills (assuming you own a house). The media have covered it well. I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
And I'm surprised that you are anti-Miller; that normally seems to be the domain of those who live in 905. Perhaps I'm missing a demographic here though ... which part of the city do you live in?
Glen
Senior Member
Miller promised to keep property tax increases in line with inflation. He did not say that he would add the LTT, VRT, garbage fees, water rate hikes, etc. It is not that I blame him from doing so, What choice did he have after all. What I despise is the surprise to the backlash to increased taxes/fees when the public was led to believe otherwise. Politicians of all stripes must be more honest. I have just as much disdain for those on the right of city council for suggesting that Toronto residents can expect lower taxes.
The problem I have with current council is that they have reached a level of taxation where further increases face a lot of resistance. How are they going to continue with the program to reduce commercial taxes and shift them to residential? The last two years, there has been threats that the shift might be suspended. To his credit, Mayor Miller did not suspend the program. How realistic will that be over the next few years when we are being warned of double digit increases though?
Darwinkgo
Active Member
What are these grand things you think have been accomplished? The only thing I can point to is the new street cars and the Sheppard LRT. Are far as I can see they are both still far enough off that we can't pass judgement on them.
nfitz
Superstar
Just off the top of my head, in no particcular order ... City of Toronto Act, improving the fiscal stability, restoring funding to libraries. increased spending on infrastructure maintenance, park improvements (particularly along the waterfront), reducing homeless downtown, transit increases (more buses, much later service on many routes), BMO Field, Dufferin jog, improving the balance between commerical and residential taxation, Union station rebuild, Pan-Am games, snow removal improvements (compare winter 2008/09 to 2007/08), the huge reduction in garbage from the new tag procedure, solving the landfill crisis (for a few decades at least), Spadina subway extension, ... and a lot more I'm probably not even aware of. Sure there are negatives as well ... but we hardly live in Utopia ... and we certainly don't have the wholesale corruption that is seen in a lot of major cities such as Chicago or Montreal.
Okay, I answered the question. Who do you think is the best leader since Allen (and why?)
Glen
Senior Member
1. CoTA, was to allow Toronto to implement new taxes because it was afraid to raise property tax.
2. Improving fiscal stability- Are we talking about some other Toronto I don't know about, or do you improve it by spending more?
3. Increased spending on libraries, infrastructure etc. see #2 + empty reserves.
4. Waterfront - wave decks and soil remediation for developers to build more condos.
5. ETBC - to little, to late, to slow. We will see if continues.
6. Garbage collection - poor diversion record for green bins and too much bureaucracy (dump was good though)
7. Spadina Subway - the jury is still out on that one.
2. Improving fiscal stability- Are we talking about some other Toronto I don't know about, or do you improve it by spending more?
3. Increased spending on libraries, infrastructure etc. see #2 + empty reserves.
4. Waterfront - wave decks and soil remediation for developers to build more condos.
5. ETBC - to little, to late, to slow. We will see if continues.
6. Garbage collection - poor diversion record for green bins and too much bureaucracy (dump was good though)
7. Spadina Subway - the jury is still out on that one.
Glen
Senior Member
On the fiscal stability issue.....
City still faces financial woes
City still faces financial woes
SimonP
Active Member
The first poll of the full slate of candidates has been published by the Star:
*Smitherman - 34% (down 10% since Jan 11)
*Ford - 27%
*Pantalone - 14% (up 9%)
*Rossi - 13% (down 2%)
*Thomson - 7%
*Mammolitti - 3% (down 1%)
*Other 2%
The big news is Ford's solid 27% finish in the first poll he's been included in. Polls had shown a large section on the right that was unsatisfied with the earlier crop of candidates, so this isn't a complete surprise. Can Ford keep moving up to a number that will elect him mayor? My guess/desperate hope is no. Ford has strong name recognition already, so there aren't many staunch conservatives who don't already support him. At some point the media will also have to start pointing out his strong dose of crazy. This should hopefully prevent his support from growing to a level that will allow him to win.
The other big move up was Pantalone. Not too surprisingly he inherited most of Adam's supporters. As the lone candidate on the left in a generally centre-left city he has a lot of room to move upwards. With Miller and the NDP machines behind him he will be well funded and have one of the best ground operations.
The candidate Ford took the most votes from is Smitherman, whose front runner status has always been based more on name recognition. Smitherman is in a very problematic spot. His approach so far on issues like bike lanes and transit city is to not say much of anything. This leaves him out of the media and causes those who care either way about these issues to look elsewhere. The problem is that with strong challengers to both right and left Smitherman will lose a chunk of support with any decision he makes. For instance, if Smitherman comes out in favour of a bike lane on Jarvis he will alienate supporters in Rosedale/Moore Park and lose some of the "war on cars" vote to Ford. If Smitherman comes out against Jarvis bike lanes he will lose some downtown progressives to Pantalone.
Looking at those numbers, my prediction is that the final election will come down to a right/left contest between Ford and Pantalone. The triangulation that Smitherman will have to pull off to win is almost impossible.
*Smitherman - 34% (down 10% since Jan 11)
*Ford - 27%
*Pantalone - 14% (up 9%)
*Rossi - 13% (down 2%)
*Thomson - 7%
*Mammolitti - 3% (down 1%)
*Other 2%
The big news is Ford's solid 27% finish in the first poll he's been included in. Polls had shown a large section on the right that was unsatisfied with the earlier crop of candidates, so this isn't a complete surprise. Can Ford keep moving up to a number that will elect him mayor? My guess/desperate hope is no. Ford has strong name recognition already, so there aren't many staunch conservatives who don't already support him. At some point the media will also have to start pointing out his strong dose of crazy. This should hopefully prevent his support from growing to a level that will allow him to win.
The other big move up was Pantalone. Not too surprisingly he inherited most of Adam's supporters. As the lone candidate on the left in a generally centre-left city he has a lot of room to move upwards. With Miller and the NDP machines behind him he will be well funded and have one of the best ground operations.
The candidate Ford took the most votes from is Smitherman, whose front runner status has always been based more on name recognition. Smitherman is in a very problematic spot. His approach so far on issues like bike lanes and transit city is to not say much of anything. This leaves him out of the media and causes those who care either way about these issues to look elsewhere. The problem is that with strong challengers to both right and left Smitherman will lose a chunk of support with any decision he makes. For instance, if Smitherman comes out in favour of a bike lane on Jarvis he will alienate supporters in Rosedale/Moore Park and lose some of the "war on cars" vote to Ford. If Smitherman comes out against Jarvis bike lanes he will lose some downtown progressives to Pantalone.
Looking at those numbers, my prediction is that the final election will come down to a right/left contest between Ford and Pantalone. The triangulation that Smitherman will have to pull off to win is almost impossible.
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Darwinkgo
Active Member
Ford will start to bleed support now that the media will place his comments at the top of stories and TV media will ask him for comment on everything. When it becomes clear he has few positions on anything, and waffles on a fair number of issues he will start his downward slide. He may peak at around 35% before taking his slide, but I would gander he will finish the summer sub 20%
SimonP
Active Member
To give some more background on how difficult a position Smitherman is in, look at the long history of centrist mayoral candidates who were at the top of the polls early in the race, but ended up in distant third:
*1969 election: Stephen Clarkson behind Bill Dennison and Margaret Campbell
*1972 election: David Rotenberg behind David Crombie and Tony O'Donohue
*1978 election: David Smith behind John Sewell and Tony O'Donohue
*1991 election: Susan Fish behind June Rowlands and Jack Layton
*2003 election: Barbara Hall behind David Miller and John Tory
*1969 election: Stephen Clarkson behind Bill Dennison and Margaret Campbell
*1972 election: David Rotenberg behind David Crombie and Tony O'Donohue
*1978 election: David Smith behind John Sewell and Tony O'Donohue
*1991 election: Susan Fish behind June Rowlands and Jack Layton
*2003 election: Barbara Hall behind David Miller and John Tory
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I think Smitherman's best bet is to go left but still play up the tough-on-unions thing.
nfitz
Superstar
You would think so ...
But on the bike lane issue, Ford was the only one who sounded middle-ground ... and it was Smitherman who was waffling.
I'm amazed that the media seems to be using kid gloves with Ford; especially in comparison to the fisting they gave Giambrone. I'm not sure what is up there ... are they just waiting for him to bend over a bit futher, so that they can go deeper?
Coltaine79
Active Member
Good grief, this is turning into a circus nightmare isn't it?
Seriously, if we actually end up with a Rob Ford-led right wing nutjobbish mayoralty post-Miller, I'm going to COMPLETELY blame the "hard lefties" for it.
It would have been their incompetence at organization, failure to come up with good candidates, and desire to bicker over relatively minor issues, that would have taken us to that point.
Echoes of the LPC losing control of Canada to "The Republican Party (Canada) Inc." back in 2006...
Lefties, get your $h1t together and back Smitherman already!
Seriously, if we actually end up with a Rob Ford-led right wing nutjobbish mayoralty post-Miller, I'm going to COMPLETELY blame the "hard lefties" for it.
It would have been their incompetence at organization, failure to come up with good candidates, and desire to bicker over relatively minor issues, that would have taken us to that point.
Echoes of the LPC losing control of Canada to "The Republican Party (Canada) Inc." back in 2006...
Lefties, get your $h1t together and back Smitherman already!