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Wow, if Rossi is planning to do that, can anyone say, GOODBYE Trinity-Spadina?

Rob Ford, I don't like either. Yes, we need more subways, but replacing every streetcar with buses.. How do you plan to run Spadina, King, or Queen? Its been known in the past that running buses in Spadina turned up the Chaos. However, it can be easily modified to become a BRT though.

Also, running express buses on Eglinton? Isn't it already congested from Keele to all the way past Laird Drive during rush hours? Finally, there is no such thing as a 'clean bus'. Any bus creates emissions no matter what technology you use..
 
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Reminder: Toronto is traditionally left leaning. We're not affraid of Liberals or NDPs.

I would say more Centrist... (liberal) than 'NDP' I mean, the libs have lost a lot of ground to the NDP lately, but ultimately, it's still very Liberal (Trinity Spadina and Toronto Danforth are the only NDP wards) With the exception of highpark, you can put a broom in any of the ridings and the libs will win.
 
Wow, if Rossi is planning to do that, can anyone say, GOODBYE Trinity-Spadina?

Rob Ford, I don't like either. Yes, we need more subways, but replacing every streetcar with buses.. How do you plan to run Spadina, King, or Queen? Its been known in the past that running buses in Spadina turned up the Chaos. However, it can be easily modified to become a BRT though.

Also, running express buses on Eglinton? Isn't it already congested from Keele to all the way past Laird Drive during rush hours? Finally, there is no such thing as a 'clean bus'. Any bus creates emissions no matter what technology you use..

I would assume you're a member of the 'labour' council?

a.k.a Pantalone supporter. So much for progressive votes eh? ;)
 
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I would assume you're a member of the 'labour' council?

a.k.a Pantalone supporter. So much for progressive votes eh? ;)

No, I'm just a regular Toronto citizen like most other people here.

I really don't know who to vote yet. I'll just wait until voting time.
 
Did a bit of a breakdown of Urban/Suburban voting tendencies, turnouts, etc from the last two elections (since the data was available). I divided up the results by ward and sorted them by downtown and surburban wards making Eglinton, the Humber River, The lake and Vic Park the boundaries. This provided 15 downtown wards and 29 suburban wards. Obviously this isn't perfect because someone who lives on the north side of Eglinton would be a suburbanite while their neighbour across the street would be downtown, but that's ok. (Note that for 2003, because they didn't include the 'total' for each ward I didn't take the time to add up all the "others", so the results maybe off by a percent or two)

2003
Downtown
% of pop. turnout: 31.26%, % of total voters: 38%
Voted for - Miller: 56.7%, Hall: 9.25%, Tory/Nunziata: 34.05%
Suburban
% of pop. turnout: 24.57%, % of total voters: 62%
Voted for - Miller: 38.14%, Hall: 10.37%, Tory/Nunziata: 51.49%

2006
Downtown
% of pop. turnout: 26.10%, % of total voters: 36%
Voted for - Miller: 64.55%, Pitfield: 27.1%, other: 8.35%
Suburban
% of pop. turnout: 22.40%, % of total voters: 64%
Voted for - Miller: 52.72%, Pitfield: 35.25% , other: 12.03%


So what does this tell us? I think it says a few things (some of which are common sense):
1. In a seemingly close election, downtown voters turn out in proportionally greater numbers (though both areas increased by 40,000 voters). If Ford is perceived as the favourite to win, the downtown will come out in even greater droves than it did in 2003, I think.

2. In the absence of a "centre" candidate like in 2006, centre voters are probably more more likely to vote for the left wing candidate (perhaps it's just a coincidence that Hall + Miller = Miller 2006, but unless all those voters simply didn't show up, accounting for the lower turnout substantially more of them probably voted for Miller). This, to me, means that those Hall voters would go to Smitherman or Pantalone before Rossi (and certainly before Ford)

3. In an election where there is both a moderate and heavily right leaning conservative (Tory/Nunziata), 2 out of 5 suburban voters still voted for Miller. Perhaps some were more anti-Tory than pro-Miller, but that somehow seems doubtful since Tory wasn't the "bad guy" in the election. Both candidates were high quality.

4. Even though I haven't displayed the stats here (I certainly can provide my messy excel file to anyone who wants to see it), there's a fairly strong correlation between the beliefs of who Downtown voters elect as their Mayor and who they elect as their Councillor, while in the suburbs it's somewhat random. To give an example, 52% of people in Ford's ward voted for Miller in 2006. This also potentially shows just how strong incumbency is as well (there's been numerous studies on municipal elections being overwhelmingly favourable to the incumbent). This suggests that the only real opportunities for change within council are in those wards where the councillor is not returning. So, simply because someone might vote for a right leaning candidate for mayor, this will probably not impact who they vote for as councillor.

5. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, even in an extremely competitive election such as in 2003, only 1/4th of suburban people voted. This is why I don't think Ford is going to obtain 35% of the vote. He would need approximately 250,000 votes to get that number. If we assume Ford's downtown support is probably at Nunziata levels or at best only slightly better (I'd say that's not far off) and Nunziata received 6800 votes downtown, Ford would need to win 61% of all of the votes in the suburbs to reach 35% support across the city. Considering in 2003, 38% of suburban voters voted for Miller, and another 10% voted for Hall, you can probably infer that almost 50% of the suburbs would not vote for Ford. There's no way anyone swings that violently to the right, especially with 5 candidates to choose from.

Based on these stats, I don't know how Ford wins unless there's an even split across the board. Even if we gave Ford half of the suburban vote (which seems unlikely), that's only 31% across the city. Realistically, I bet he pulls in high 20s, but I don't think that's enough once the downtown decides who its candidate of choice will be (smitherman or Pantalone). I actually think that if Miller comes out at the right time with an endorsement of Pantalone, and if he can get some good press, Pantalone might come out on top.
 
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Great analysis.

I guess the question is, will Ford inspire sub-urban voters to come out and vote for him, more than he will scare and terrify downtown voters to come out and vote against him.
 
nfitz - I don't think it matters. He would need to start an unprecedented revolution to make up for the number of people who already vote left/centre in the suburbs. And are people really that hyped up about Ford, that they view him as a much better candidate to vote for than Tory? Remember, turnout in the suburbs was only 2% higher (over 2006) in a similar race as this one in 2003.

Furthermore, he would need Rossi to drop out and for all of Rocco's voters to move to Ford in order to come close to 50% in the suburbs (and that doesn't even take into account that Smitherman as the "centre candidate" in this one is essentially a spitting image of Tory). Even that only gives him 31% across the city (and probably lower if we assume that the downtowners will be coming out to counter). I don't think 31% wins him the election. With 5 candidates, it sounds like a good number to hit because we assume the vote will be spread across the other 4 candidates, but I think in the coming months it'll become either a 3 or 4 horse race with support for Thompson and/or Rossi dwindling a la Hall 2003. So if that is the case, 31% seems to be his absolute ceiling in my books and that won't be enough once people rally around the anti-Ford from the centre/left.
 
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I guess the nightmare scenario though, is he get's 30%, and the other 4 split 70% ... if they range from 10% to 25%, it's not difficult to win with 30%.

I don't think he can maintain 30% ... but I'm constantly over-estimating the intelligence and humanity of people (and I'm using people in a collective form here).
 
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One thing that really scares me is the number of sane Conservatives that I know and respect that have recently stated to me that they'd be supporting Ford. Not scary Cons, but the types that would generally vote for someone like a John Tory. Their reasoning seems to be "I don't really like the guy, but he can give Toronto the kick in the butt it needs." It was also weird to see Kensington Market merchants so in love with Ford too.

Basically, he's now appealing beyond his logical base which I think could unfortunately hand him this election in a tight race, albeit with a very small plurality.
 
I only have anecdotal evidence to go on, but I would argue that suburban support for Ford is growing, and at this point I believe suburban voter turnout will increase.

By all rights the revelations in August should have damaged Ford yet they hardly did at all. If his poll numbers hold until Thanksgiving, I think he'll be a lock.
 
I really don't get the "kick in the butt" sentiment that is so often expressed. The whole thing strikes me as some sort of unthoughtful pendulum swing based on a perception that Miller was awful for the city and that everything is now wrong. I also think that this approach reflects the gradual disconnect that many people are having from the political process in that they don't understand (or don't want to understand) the longer term implications of simplistic policies delivered by populists like Ford.

There is no way that Ford can or will address structural problems that originate from the province - which have been at the root of many city issues and certainly one source of the prevailing negativity that typically gets lumped onto the municipal government. So far, his approach to things is merely a kind of small-town "always balance the ledger" approach that does not work in city of this size, complexity and budget. What Ford has is an opportunity to bring great damage to transit infrastructure investment that will be very hard and very expensive to undo. His apparent lack of strategic thinking for the city on the global stage will also have long-term effects. If his big concerns are about getting volunteers to pick up trash or to not water trees to save bucks, then he's not the right person to serve as mayor of the largest city in Canada. Add to that, I doubt that he will care about any city beautification initiatives, and I am guessing that under Ford we will see an increase in litter on the streets, reduced library hours and a repudiation of cultural activities that don't appeal to his state of mind.
 
There is no way that Ford can or will address structural problems that originate from the province - which have been at the root of many city issues and certainly one source of the prevailing negativity that typically gets lumped onto the municipal government.

Would you expand on this?
 
Would you expand on this?
The guy is clearly not very intelligent. From his questions and comments in council over the years, he likely doesn't have the intelligence and background to really be able to do the deep thinking and discussions that would be necessary to make structural changes; and I doubt staff will lead him in that direction.

Slash and burn, sure ... he can do. But structural changes?

You've done some pretty deep thinking on these issues. Does Rob Ford strike you as someone capable of that? Does someone who think that replacing 200 streetcars with 800 buses to save money strike you as someone who is going to be good at this stuff?
 
Smitherman had a great idea. Im not one for his liberal approach but making construction contractor more "responsible" for their construction makes a lot of sense. This way they have to finish a project on time instead of jumping to the next one because it offers more immediate money....while the city contract waits.

This is something I have been preaching for the last two yrs.
 

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