[Archivist]

I suppose it all depends what you are looking for and when. Cities go through phases as well, when they are more or less exciting. For instance (and though his may not be relevant for M5Vgirl) Toronto has seven or eight 24-hour gay bathhouses; New York has none. New York seems to go through libertarian/puritan phases in its evolution, and right now, it's leaning to the corporate and puritan.

 

[ladyscraper]

One other weird thing about New York. About five years ago I was booked to DJ in a bar in Manhattan. Some girls started dancing to the music and the bartender came over and told them to stop dancing and pointed at a sign on the wall "NO DANCING".

I went over to him to ask him why he was doing that and he told me that dancing was illegal in New York except in a few venues that pay a lot of money for some kind of dancing license. I thought he was joking but he was dead serious. He told me they got fined $2000 the week before when some people started dancing and the cops busted in.

That was the worst. I hope they changed that by now. Real life footloose.

 

[Archivist]

New York, for all its fabulousness, can be weird in some ways. I recall leaving a bar and there was this, like, HUGE notice on the doorway leaving that basically screamed, "This is a RESIDENTIAL neighbourhood, so DO NOT MAKE NOISE as you walk away, and DO NOT walk down [14th Street - don't remember] unless you have to and if you do then BE QUIET as you walk down the street". It was clearly a response to repeated complaints, but struck me as downright Torontonian (or Omaha-an) in tone and direction.

I think this is why some are nostalgic for New York's bad old days of filthy subway cars and filthier bars.

 

[unimaginative2]

Toronto is a pretty 24 hour city. We have quite a few late night/24 hour restaurants, and they're not just diners. We've got all kinds of 24 hour shops (drug stores, grocery stores) and even a few stores that are open late. I think the problem is that people go to the King and Bay area thinking that it's downtown and expect everything to be open late. You'd do much better on Bloor or Queen or College. The best place is North Scarborough or Markham. Those strip malls have ten times as many people in them at 3am than any place downtown.

Los Angeles--now there is a sleepy city. It's a nightmare trying to get dinner at 9 pm.

When complaining about how little you can do in Toronto late at night, remember how much better it is than being in a European city. There is literally one 24 hour grocery store in the entire Berlin metropolitan area.

 

[Oliver Tweed]

...people in Toronto can afford nice places to live - people actually buy their homes and furnish them well so they want to stay in them, have guests over and basically enjoy living there. In NYC, almost everyone rents and if you are a student or in your 20's, you are likely living in a closet size unit with no ammendities, no room to invite friends over and a view of a brick wall hence, the need to get out and stay out (creating demand for restaurants, Starbucks, etc. to close very late).

This is a huge issue. NY is much like Tokyo in this regard. Toronto is much more livable, for sure, but that comes at a price.

 

[Archivist]

Germany and Holland are incredibly difficult places to find corner stores that are open anything like extended hours. I've been thrown into an absolute fury when visiting there because you suddenly need something quite small, and walk forever in the very heart of the city without finding even a trace of something open. It's absurd.

Those countries should be begging 7-11 to come in.

 

[Urban Shocker]

you suddenly need something quite small

?????

 

[TrickyRicky]

"Those countries should be begging 7-11 to come in."

Funny you mention that because I had such a weird experience with Copenhagen in 2001. It was impossible to buy anything after 7 pm except at 7-11. I thought to myself why wouldn't some scandinavian dude just come up with his own 7-11? He did, I discovered 5 years later (I forget the name of the chain that is now everywhere), but I think he became a billionaire.

 

[Basshats]

Tokyo is a great example of a city that truly never sleeps.

Except the subways and commuter rail lines which all shut down around midnight. Many a politician has pushed for 24 hour service on key lines and many a politician has been threatened and occasionally beaten for it.

This might have something to do with the fact that the vast majority of the taxi companies are owned by Yakuza families.

 

[T.O.Fanatic]

The blue night service is actually very good, compared to many other cities (although a 24 hr subway would be best, if it were feasable). Getting to York U by blue night is almost impossible! Heading all the way up Yonge to Finch, and then westboud on finch....not to mention the walk up Keele!

 

[adma]

In Euro-zones like Germany, aren't things like gas station convenience stores open longer hours?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Streets like Queen or King or College may be livelier than Yonge from, say, 9pm-2am, but at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, Yonge is unquestionably livelier.

The real test for 24-hourness should be 4am, not midnight. Toronto performs reasonably well on this test...other cities may have more bars and clubs open past 2am, but do they have the night buses and stores and so on that are open after 2am that Toronto does? It sounds like the only thing you can do in Berlin after midnight is get drunk.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Streets like Queen or King or College may be livelier than Yonge from, say, 9pm-2am, but at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, Yonge is unquestionably livelier.

What's going on at that time in the morning that makes Yonge Street so lively? And what are you doing on Yonge Street at 3, 4 or 5am?

 

[Tdot_one]

I agree with Scarb. I've lived in innercity Melbourne and have seen trams stop on me at 1:30AM. Trains are down at 12AM and both are NOT replaced by buses. The pathetic NightRider service replaces train lines on Saturday and Sunday only.

Toronto is definitely a lot more active than Melbourne considering I'm literally trapped after 12AM despite living 5km away from the CBD. I've even lived within the CBD and most streets (Queen St, Elizabeth, etc) are dead. Queens is a lot more pathetic, but even the livier Swanston St isn't that busy after 8PM outside special events.

Saying that, much of Toronto's problem is clearly density. NYC, having been there, has very optimal land use development. Seeing that the city depends quite heavily on intra-city commuting as well, there is bound to be periods where commercial areas are asleep. If there was more commercial developemnt around the many housing blocks in Toronto, city life would be a lot more different.

 

[allabootmatt]

Streets like Queen or King or College may be livelier than Yonge from, say, 9pm-2am, but at 3 or 4 or 5 in the morning, Yonge is unquestionably livelier.

The real test for 24-hourness should be 4am, not midnight. Toronto performs reasonably well on this test...other cities may have more bars and clubs open past 2am, but do they have the night buses and stores and so on that are open after 2am that Toronto does? It sounds like the only thing you can do in Berlin after midnight is get drunk.

Well, you can get a meal, too, in the finest German tradition of 'cafes' that are at once bars/clubs/restaurants/neighbourhood social hubs.

There are now a couple of 24 hour grocery stores in Berlin, plus of course tons of small Turkish groceries (spatkauf) that are open late.