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Jonny5 said:
It feels like whole organisations and governments and nations now have to pick a side now. I see three options emerging, and ideology will play a big part in where everyone falls in line.

  1. Hard Zero COVID: examples are China, Australia and New Zealand. Still doing everything to proactively stop any foothold in their countries of the virus, and using extreme isolation measures to get even suspected exposure cases into mandatory police-patrolled quarantines.
  2. Soft Zero COVID: examples are most of Canada, the UK (maybe?), and most of the EU: a mostly reactive policy that relies on public education, working from home, and high vaccination rates to have a mostly reactive COVID response that ramps up and down as needed, though it always trails actual infection rates by one or two weeks, meaning it only ever gets close to zero COVID, but never actually at zero.
  3. Live with COVID: the US is the example, where Omicron is sweeping through the population, but there's little appetite to take any measures because of all of moderately good vaccination rates, ideology, and in some cases the economic imperative of workers who if they are forced out of employment have little or zero government assistance to fall back on.
These three options seem to be emerging as the debate of 2022. The Olympics in China will be the big test. I see the chances of it being at least postponed a year to have gone from 5% to 25% in the past two weeks.
Click to expand...

Option 3 please. The only restrictions should be on the unvaccinated at this point. Either the vaccines work and we should move on with our lives, or they don't and we'll never get out of this loop.
 
Jonny5 said:
It feels like whole organisations and governments and nations now have to pick a side now. I see three options emerging, and ideology will play a big part in where everyone falls in line.

  1. Hard Zero COVID: examples are China, Australia and New Zealand. Still doing everything to proactively stop any foothold in their countries of the virus, and using extreme isolation measures to get even suspected exposure cases into mandatory police-patrolled quarantines.
  2. Soft Zero COVID: examples are most of Canada, the UK (maybe?), and most of the EU: a mostly reactive policy that relies on public education, working from home, and high vaccination rates to have a mostly reactive COVID response that ramps up and down as needed, though it always trails actual infection rates by one or two weeks, meaning it only ever gets close to zero COVID, but never actually at zero.
  3. Live with COVID: the US is the example, where Omicron is sweeping through the population, but there's little appetite to take any measures because of all of moderately good vaccination rates, ideology, and in some cases the economic imperative of workers who if they are forced out of employment have little or zero government assistance to fall back on.
These three options seem to be emerging as the debate of 2022. The Olympics in China will be the big test. I see the chances of it being at least postponed a year to have gone from 5% to 25% in the past two weeks.
Click to expand...
I think you could move Australia and New Zealand into the second category. They have abandoned their zero COVID strategy a couple of months ago.

That's a pretty rosy picture you've painted of the US. For such a wealthy country, their vaccination rate is terrible.
 
APTA-2048 said:
I think you could move Australia and New Zealand into the second category. They have abandoned their zero COVID strategy a couple of months ago.

That's a pretty rosy picture you've painted of the US. For such a wealthy country, their vaccination rate is terrible.
Click to expand...
The problem is not their wealth - they make and have LOTS of vaccine. The problem is getting Americans to have it injected into their arms!
 
DSC said:
The problem is not their wealth - they make and have LOTS of vaccine. The problem is getting Americans to have it injected into their arms!
Click to expand...
That’s what I mean. There is no shortage of vaccine. They were one of the first countries to start vaccinating. Yet many still face barriers to vaccination or are outright refusing to get vaccinated.
 
DSC said:
Not sure what barriers Americans face in getting vaccines - except stupidity!
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit unfair to generalize every unvaccinated person as stupid. Employment can be a barrier to getting vaccinated. It can be hard to coordinate when you can't get time off work or work an irregular schedule or an enormous number of hours to make ends meet. Some areas just plain don't have as many resources as others too.
 
APTA-2048 said:
I think it's a bit unfair to generalize every unvaccinated person as stupid. Employment can be a barrier to getting vaccinated. It can be hard to coordinate when you can't get time off work or work an irregular schedule or an enormous number of hours to make ends meet. Some areas just plain don't have as many resources as others too.
Click to expand...

That might be true early on when vaccines are scarce and demand outstripped supply, but it probably hasn't been the case for a long time.

AoD
 
Jonny5 said:
It feels like whole organisations and governments and nations now have to pick a side now. I see three options emerging, and ideology will play a big part in where everyone falls in line.

  1. Hard Zero COVID: examples are China, Australia and New Zealand. Still doing everything to proactively stop any foothold in their countries of the virus, and using extreme isolation measures to get even suspected exposure cases into mandatory police-patrolled quarantines.
  2. Soft Zero COVID: examples are most of Canada, the UK (maybe?), and most of the EU: a mostly reactive policy that relies on public education, working from home, and high vaccination rates to have a mostly reactive COVID response that ramps up and down as needed, though it always trails actual infection rates by one or two weeks, meaning it only ever gets close to zero COVID, but never actually at zero.
  3. Live with COVID: the US is the example, where Omicron is sweeping through the population, but there's little appetite to take any measures because of all of moderately good vaccination rates, ideology, and in some cases the economic imperative of workers who if they are forced out of employment have little or zero government assistance to fall back on.
These three options seem to be emerging as the debate of 2022. The Olympics in China will be the big test. I see the chances of it being at least postponed a year to have gone from 5% to 25% in the past two weeks.
Click to expand...

I don't think zero COVID is a strategy for most countries (other than China, North Korea or perhaps a few others). I think the question now is how you live with COVID - vaccinate and moderate the spread so that it doesn't overwhelm the system, or have it as a free for all. The latter is distinctively unwise at this stage.

AoD
 
APTA-2048 said:
I think it's a bit unfair to generalize every unvaccinated person as stupid. Employment can be a barrier to getting vaccinated. It can be hard to coordinate when you can't get time off work or work an irregular schedule or an enormous number of hours to make ends meet. Some areas just plain don't have as many resources as others too.
Click to expand...

America is probably one of the easiest places in the world to get to the vaccine. My friends in Texas who are non essential workers, were double vaxxed while I was still waiting to get my first shot.
You can pretty much can walk into any CVS/Walmart, and get the vaccine. Walgreens had 24 hour vaccine shots running in hundreds of pharmacies across the country. Plus they had mobile vaccine buses going in to the low income neighborhoods.

If you live in America, and you haven't gotten at least one vaccine shot, it's because of stupidity, not because you couldn't get time off work.
 
gabe said:
America is probably one of the easiest places in the world to get to the vaccine. My friends in Texas who are non essential workers, were double vaxxed while I was still waiting to get my first shot.
You can pretty much can walk into any CVS/Walmart, and get the vaccine. Walgreens had 24 hour vaccine shots running in hundreds of pharmacies across the country. Plus they had mobile vaccine buses going in to the low income neighborhoods.

If you live in America, and you haven't gotten at least one vaccine shot, it's because of stupidity, not because you couldn't get time off work.
Click to expand...
I mean this article was posted in August.

 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That might be true early on when vaccines are scarce and demand outstripped supply, but it probably hasn't been the case for a long time.

AoD
Click to expand...
Last May, it took me 5 minutes from my computer in Toronto to find a place where my American husband, who was taking care of his sick mother in Pittsburgh, could get his second Pfizer vaccine.
 
Every American I know has been able to find a vaccine or a booster with no issues. They are readily available. Unlike here where I spent this afternoon putting myself in multiple wait lists.
 
PinkLucy said:
Every American I know has been able to find a vaccine or a booster with no issues. They are readily available. Unlike here where I spent this afternoon putting myself in multiple wait lists.
Click to expand...
I'm expecting the booking portal to crash Monday morning when it opens up to everyone 18+.
The secret I found last time was to wait for late in the evening when there is little traffic on the site and then you can find a smattering of appointments a few days ahead that have opened up from cancellations.
 
gabe said:
America is probably one of the easiest places in the world to get to the vaccine. My friends in Texas who are non essential workers, were double vaxxed while I was still waiting to get my first shot.
You can pretty much can walk into any CVS/Walmart, and get the vaccine. Walgreens had 24 hour vaccine shots running in hundreds of pharmacies across the country. Plus they had mobile vaccine buses going in to the low income neighborhoods.

If you live in America, and you haven't gotten at least one vaccine shot, it's because of stupidity, not because you couldn't get time off work.
Click to expand...
Stupidity, ideological, political, take your pick. I frequent a forum that is mostly US contributors and largely made up of trades, rural folk; you know, 'good ol' boys'. The distrust of government, distain for government intrusion into their lives; distrust of science; you know, 'freedom baby', is rampant. Many wouldn't take these 'experimental drugs' if it was wrapped in a $100 bill.
Jonny5 said:
I'm expecting the booking portal to crash Monday morning when it opens up to everyone 18+.
The secret I found last time was to wait for late in the evening when there is little traffic on the site and then you can find a smattering of appointments a few days ahead that have opened up from cancellations.
Click to expand...
It has had it's hiccups but I have found the 'virtual queue' of the booking portal to work quite well. Both for #2 and #3 I was on around 9am on day one of eligibility, was told my wait time, went and did stuff and came back to book, right on time. We've had much less luck with the private sector involvement (drug stores).
 
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