[Lenser]

So an entertainment complex with a casino that has a lot more is ok, but if the casino revenues are big its not ok? Thats really stupid. So what if the casino is the largest source of profit at the entertainment complex? People could come to watch a show, eat at a nice restaurant, goto the spa, ride a ride, stay in the hotel, shop, and not even use the casino once. Just because the major point of profit is the casino doesn't mean that its a bad place. Only 5% is a casino. So what if that 5% supports the other 95% entertainment complex?

Just so I got this straight: are you calling me really stupid? Or are you simply frustrated that not everyone is on side with your 'world class' dream?

___________________________________________________

Do you really believe that the casino will be the major point of profit - that the 5% will underwrite the remaining 95%? Why assume that? Are you privy to how the government will deal with the development - what perks and incentives it will offer, what it expects to get in return? You seriously expect that the casino will support everything else around it? Please explain how you think this will work.

 

[coolcanadian]

i'm saying that its dumb to not want a project that will bring billions of money and millions of people just because there are bad examples. There are great examples too.

 

[Lenser]

There are. But the story lies in how you get from point A to point B. A great casino story is not a foregone conclusion; neither is the opposite. It will be interesting to see what's eventually proposed, and how well it will be received by the masses.

 

[Jonny5]

i'm saying that its dumb to not want a project that will bring billions of money and millions of people just because there are bad examples. There are great examples too.

"millions of people"
"billions of money"

A lot of the opposition to casinos can be traced back to farcically inflated claims like these for projects that haven't even been proposed.

 

[coolcanadian]

"millions of people"
"billions of money"

A lot of the opposition to casinos can be traced back to farcically inflated claims like these for projects that haven't even been proposed.

I knew someone would comment on that. Im saying that based on figures from the Crown Casino in Melbourne, which is actually a smaller development then our potential casino.

There are. But the story lies in how you get from point A to point B. A great casino story is not a foregone conclusion; neither is the opposite. It will be interesting to see what's eventually proposed, and how well it will be received by the masses.

I agree. It will be interesting. It is possible that this can go both ways. I was just saying that it very well can be good, for those who completely oppose it.

 

[spider]

I have a problem with a couple of the numbers being bandied about recently on this thread ( which initially asked where, not how much).

If one operator is given an exclusive on building a Casino in Toronto they will spend a hell of a lot less than $2-6 billion because they don't have to compete with another Casino, why would they?

Gambling facilities may be described as only 5% of the investment but would surely generate most of the profit. Ask them to build the same "entertainment" facilities without gambling and see how eager they are to sit down and talk about it.

I am not in favour or opposed to a Casino in Toronto. There is a market otherwise where the hell are all those busses with Chinese characters all over them going anyways. Let's not get carried away over a really big Bingo Hall that doesn't deserve a prime location to ply it's trade.

 

[coolcanadian]

I have a problem with a couple of the numbers being bandied about recently on this thread ( which initially asked where, not how much).

If one operator is given an exclusive on building a Casino in Toronto they will spend a hell of a lot less than $2-6 billion because they don't have to compete with another Casino, why would they?

Gambling facilities may be described as only 5% of the investment but would surely generate most of the profit. Ask them to build the same "entertainment" facilities without gambling and see how eager they are to sit down and talk about it.

I am not in favour or opposed to a Casino in Toronto. There is a market otherwise where the hell are all those busses with Chinese characters all over them going anyways. Let's not get carried away over a really big Bingo Hall that doesn't deserve a prime location to ply it's trade.

1. MGM said they would build it for 2-6 billion dollars before other companies were interested. They want to build a mega resort here, and it would be within that range.

2. So what if most of the profit comes from the 5% casino part? So what if they wouldn't build the rest of the complex without the casino? The point is, we would be getting a 95% entertainment complex 5% casino. The complex would also be used by non-gamers, and it does not really affect us if most of the profit comes from the gamers. It's almost like saying "we should not extend the subway north because most people live downtown so why have our subway system go out there?" I know its different but you get my point.

 

[GenerationW]

Here we go again... Whether you morally agree with casinos or not, we are getting on in the GTA no matter what. It is inevitable.

If Toronto says no, will it still be inevitable?

 

[coolcanadian]

If Toronto says no, would it still be inevitable?

Yes. If Toronto says no a casino will be placed in Markham or Mississauga or some other place like that. It has already been said. However, I guaranty it will be much less impressive and will not really attract tourists.

 

[Lenser]

Yet it seems that a lakeshore location (prominent, downtown, easily serviced by beefing up existing public transit) is heavily favoured - by the big gambling concerns themselves. Should Toronto refuse the mega-casino anywhere on its soil, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that something of the same scale is inevitable for Markham or Mississauga. Some lesser project, sure. OLG sure wants a slice of some kind of gambling expansion in the GTA but will it necessarily be epic? Perhaps only if you're a gambler.

 

[coolcanadian]

Yet it seems that a lakeshore location (prominent, downtown, easily serviced by beefing up existing public transit) is heavily favoured - by the big gambling concerns themselves. Should Toronto refuse the mega-casino anywhere on its soil, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that something of the same scale is inevitable for Markham or Mississauga. Some lesser project, sure. OLG sure wants a slice of some kind of gambling expansion in the GTA but will it necessarily be epic? Perhaps only if you're a gambler.

That is exactly my point!!! If Toronto refuses this opportunity to get such a mega venue, then the casino will see will probably be a 100% gaming complex that is dull and bland. Compared to something that could really be a great attraction for Toronto.

 

[Lenser]

But if Toronto ends up turning it down, it just might be due to a slew of good reasons for doing so.

 

[coolcanadian]

But if Toronto ends up turning it down, it just might be due to a slew of good reasons for doing so.

If Toronto ends up turing it down, it would probably be due to a public vote on which voters did not see what could have been done.

If I was told to vote on a "casino" on the water downtown Toronto I would vote against it.... If it was a resort entrainment complex that included a 5% casino -- thats a different story.

 

[Lenser]

Price you pay for living in a democracy. Majority rules.

I would say the gambling industry has an obligation to sell their vision to the Toronto public. Should they fail to embrace said vision, you can't really turn around and blame the public. Although doubtless some will try.

 

[AKS]

If one operator is given an exclusive on building a Casino in Toronto they will spend a hell of a lot less than $2-6 billion because they don't have to compete with another Casino, why would they?

There's going to be a competition. Best design/sales pitch wins. However, it will probably end up going to the public through a vote to decide whether it gets built. Or maybe they'll have to do a vote first before the competition. In which case, the public might favor against it without any solid plans.