[nautilus]

Hmm, the Montreal Casino gets about 10.5 million visitors/year, in comparison the last i heard Ontario Place couldnt even attract 1/2 million visitors a year..lets not talk about Atlantic City which gets over 30 million visitors a year...
Come-on, at the moment all Toronto can do is dream of those figures

Toronto can easily attract those figures. With the new single game sports betting law that will pass there will be millions of Americans coming across the border to Toronto to bet on Football,hockey,baseball. A Toronto casino would instantly become one of the most profitable casinos in north america.

Not to mention the amount of Asian money in Toronto which not many other cities in north america have like us. Half of Markham will be at the Toronto casino every weekend. They build it and it will be a success. These companies aren't stupid to spend a couple billion and not get their money back. They know this is a gambling city.

 

[jaycola]

There is nothing about the Gehry-Mirvish project that would make the Casino less attractive to prospective investors. In fact I would think exactly the opposite is true. There are plenty of Skyscraper geeks world wide that would travel to Toronto for the simple pleasure of experiencing a huge Gehry project. I think with the news of this project hitting the New York Times, there is greater interest in building a casino than ever before.

I think this site could have potential for a future casino. Between Bathurst and Spadina south of Wellington down to Front, there is about 25 acres here with which to work a development. Nothing I can think of here of any architectural significance. Close to the dome, the entertainment district, with easy access to the Gardiner, transit and Billy Bishop, I think we can even add a dedicated Tramway in the rail lands. Close for tourists to Chinatown, Queen West and Kensington Market, I think this could be a good fit. There is little in the way of residential in the area that would be impacted and I with Concord to the South, the views of those in the area will not be impacted negatively.

 

[TrickyRicky]

jaycola, while I am generally agnostic on the casino issue I would be actively against the site you suggest. As has been mentioned elsewhere casinos are intrinsically inward looking and better suited to "campus" locations such as the exhibition grounds.

 

[ShonTron]

jaycola, while I am generally agnostic on the casino issue I would be actively against the site you suggest. As has been mentioned elsewhere casinos are intrinsically inward looking and better suited to "campus" locations such as the exhibition grounds.

Strongly agreed. The Exhibition Grounds is the best site for a number of reasons.

 

[spider]

Strongly agreed. The Exhibition Grounds is the best site for a number of reasons.

And also the worst if it is successfull. If a second and or third player applies to replicate the success of the original player they will want to build on the Exhibition grounds too, are we ready to surrender the venerable old institution to a series of supersized Bingo Halls?

Better to sacrifice the Portlands that no one wants anyway. Please don't trot out the huge expenses this will trigger to provide services to this wasteland, these servicing costs will be identical if provided for any other sort of development,.

 

[jaycola]

The Exhibition is my preferred site too. I'm just trying to expand the options. I have put forth a number of alternate sites but none in my opinion are as viable as the Ex site.

I made this map in the past of a possible plot both North and South of Lakeshore. You could preserve all of Ontario place and most of the grounds where the Ex is held. Maybe some events could be moved further west into the parkland straddling lakeshore too. Add a few large pedestrian bridges to connect the site and move all the parking underground.

 

[sixrings]

T===
I think this site could have potential for a future casino. Between Bathurst and Spadina south of Wellington down to Front, there is about 25 acres here with which to work a development. Nothing I can think of here of any architectural significance. Close to the dome, the entertainment district, with easy access to the Gardiner, transit and Billy Bishop, I think we can even add a dedicated Tramway in the rail lands. Close for tourists to Chinatown, Queen West and Kensington Market, I think this could be a good fit. There is little in the way of residential in the area that would be impacted and I with Concord to the South, the views of those in the area will not be impacted negatively.

There is a huge condo proposal at bathurst and front, 2 condos beside that proposal and then the new globe and mail buildings.. basically the entire site you have highlighted has something on it already

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Toronto can easily attract those figures. With the new single game sports betting law that will pass there will be millions of Americans coming across the border to Toronto to bet on Football,hockey,baseball. A Toronto casino would instantly become one of the most profitable casinos in north america.

Assuming they go any farther than Niagara Falls. There are two established casinos that will block their progress unless they're already planning to visit Toronto anyway.

 

[nautilus]

Assuming they go any farther than Niagara Falls. There are two established casinos that will block their progress unless they're already planning to visit Toronto anyway.

I didn't know that Niagara falls is the only way to get to Toronto from the states. There will be people coming from all over the north east here and spending money in Toronto. Niagara Falls will not take away from Toronto visitors.
Your underestimating how many Asian people will fill up the Toronto casino every weekend. These corporations arent stupid. They wouldn't spend 2-3 billion if they wouldn't make a ton here. You dont see any other cities in north america being offered a 2-3 billion dollar casino complex because those cities wouldn't be able to support it.

Toronto is a major gambling city whether you like it or not.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

I never said it was the only way in. Nevertheless, the nearest surface entry points from the US to Canada have casinos in them already--Windsor and Niagara. Add the new casinos on the American side of the border and you'll find a lot of competition for the US market; gamblers aren't going to go farther than they have to, so unless they're already coming to Toronto they're going to favour the border casinos.

I also made no attempt to debate the domestic market or make a moral judgement on the status of gambling in Toronto. Kindly don't put words in my mouth.

 

[MetroMan]

I was at the community council meeting this evening and it was no surprised that the citizens that came to depute did so against the casino. All of those who did however, made their case against a casino in general. They all failed to understand that the OLG will build a casino in the GTA. Whether it's in Markham or Toronto, there will be a casino here. So why saddle the region with all the negative ills that these people made a case against and not take in any of the advantages?

If a casino is built in Markham, you can bet that it will not be done so by the big ones like MGM, Sands or Cesar's. It'll be a cheap box surrounded by parking. Now, if Toronto accepts the casino, we can transform it into a very powerful opportunity, with those three big casino operators willing to invest into the billions to make it happen.

There were of course those in favour of a casino, notably all the unions who sent representatives to speak. They were hospitality and construction unions that represent the thousands of jobs that will be created before and during construction and permanent jobs in operating the complex.

My favourite point made in favour of this casino is that "The house always wins". Yes, and the house is the City of Toronto. If City Hall takes control over this, we can get a big win out of it.

A suggestion was made that in exchange for letting the Province build this casino, that a transit plan be attached. If it's built at Exhibition Place, how will people get here? The City of Toronto could demand a Downtown Relief Line that the Province would fund and a terminal subway station paid for by the casino operator below the complex.

When you have billions of dollars being thrown around like this, big things can happen. Subway construction costs play in the same ballparks as the billions spent on casinos.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Thanks for that info MM and well said.....away from not thinking much of the Fords, you're all good. Lol

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't think we need to attach a transit plan to any casino proposals - doing so would be the best way to skew the former to the dictates of the latter. No, what we need is a straightforward cost-benefit analysis on the part of the city and on the part of the proponents, a clear indication of what their plans are, and what they are bringing to the table. Asking the city to approve the idea of building a casino first without even satisfying those basic requirements is like diving into a pool not knowing whether there is water in it or not. The OLG pressure of "not deciding now = some other municipality will get it" is an empty threat, when the proponents have indicated very clearly that they are not interested in anything outside downtown.

AoD

 

[MegaMax]

Funny that the Unions are coming out in favour of this. The money will just get sucked from other hotels, venues, entertainment options. I see this as a zero-sum game.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Megamax:

Maybe they think that, given OLG/city involvement, it might be easier to get concessions than the typical hotel/entertainment sector?

AoD