[EnviroTO]

Many of the railways in Japan were built by developers. They owned the lines and the land in the core of the city where the lines terminated. I'm not sure developers could cover the whole cost of a subway line but they could probably build the stations into the bottom of the developments.

 

[saiho]

Many of the railways in Japan were built by developers. They owned the lines and the land in the core of the city where the lines terminated. I'm not sure developers could cover the whole cost of a subway line but they could probably build the stations into the bottom of the developments.

well these developers tend to build commuter metro, commuter rail, or s-bahn-like lines which has a significantly lower cost per/km to construct. Coupled with the increase in land value and guaranteed ridership it would not be surprising if they managed to fund the construction of the whole line in the mid-term, but yes having a large real estate portfolio works.

 

[CML]

From The Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/802487--province-s-pledge-4-transit-city-lines-in-10-years?bn=1

Province’s pledge: 4 Transit City lines in 10 years

Letter promises to build Sheppard, Finch, Scarborough and Eglinton lines

After weeks of warnings from the mayor that the province had put a stake through the heart of his Transit City light rail plan, Queen’s Park has confirmed in writing that all four previously approved lines will be built — albeit in 10 years rather than eight.

A letter from the province to the city suggests Metrolinx has come up with a plan to keep all four previously announced Transit City projects, as well as York Region’s express bus lanes, on the map, despite a $4 billion funding cut in the next five years.

“Initial work by Metrolinx suggests that the four Transit City projects can reasonably be completed in 10 years, while achieving the required savings of $4 billion in the first five years,†says the April 27 letter to City Manager Joe Pennachetti obtained by the Toronto Star.

The province had repeatedly committed $9.5 billion to Metrolinx’s Big Five transit projects.

But in the March provincial budget, Premier Dalton McGuinty ordered Metrolinx to cut $4 billion in spending on those projects over the next five years.

A furious Mayor David Miller immediately suggested the cut would mean the end of one or more of the Transit City lines, even as the province offered repeated assurances that the projects would continue but at a slower pace.

It’s not known yet if the five-over-10 plan includes any adjustments to the original lines. Metrolinx plan calls for Sheppard to be built on the original timeline of 2013, but would put the other projects on a later schedule.

Ontario Transportation Minister Kathleen Wynne said Miller is aware of the Metrolinx plan. But she suggested the city could be more co-operative in providing TTC input in the 10-year plan.

“From our perspective and Metrolinx’s perspective we need more collaboration than we’ve got right now,†said Wynne.

“I understand the mayor was disappointed. But if Metrolinx can come up with a plan to get these projects done in 10 years, that’s pretty optimistic and we want to go there. To their credit the TTC has a lot of expertise and insight that we really need,†she said.

The letter was in response to April 14 correspondence from Pennachetti asking for a breakdown of the provincial transit funding over the next five and 10 years.

But a spokesman for Miller said the province’s reply does not address the city’s concerns.

“We asked for a breakdown of the funding over the next five to 10 years. The response we have just received doesn’t do that so, no, it does not satisfy the mayor’s concerns,†said Stuart Green.

Following a speech at the Toronto Board of Trade Thursday, Miller told reporters he has been asking the province for three weeks to put in writing that the $4 billion will be reinserted in the Ontario budget in the years 2015 to 2020.

“I can tell you what I’m afraid of. The TTC is ready to start Eglinton and Finch (lines) this year. All we need is the go-ahead,†and Finch will be finished in 2014 and the first phase of the Eglinton line ready in 2016, Miller said.

“I’m very worried that the provincial budget is going to push the start of construction on those lines past the next provincial election. Then you don’t even have an announcement; all you have is another election promise.â€

Miller said that, on April 7, Toronto presented the provincial government with a proposal that the city finance the $4 billion now, to ensure the projects proceed, and pay the loan back when the money flows from the province in a future budget.

The city told the province the interest costs would be lower than the roughly $100 million Toronto will have to spend on new buses to cope with riders if the Transit City lines don’t get built on time, Miller said.

“They will not absolutely commit to putting money back in and they will not consider the financing strategy which would keep the lines going on now. We offered a solution. It’s cheaper for us to help finance the province for a few years if they’re going to absolutely put the money back in.â€

Metrolinx chief executive Rob Prichard said the city's proposal would indirectly increase the province’s debt, undermining its commitment to fiscal responsibility. If the city borrows money and the province promises to repay it, that becomes part of the provincial debt,†he said.

“If the city has spare funds to spend on transit, Metrolinx would warmly welcome the city's contributions to those projects.â€

Prichard said Metrolinx would bring forward a plan May 19 that will set out how all five projects will be completed on budget.

 

[Voltz]

They can come up with all the plans and timelines they want, all that really matters is the funding.

 

[kettal]

I sure hope this promise lasts longer than a year before they cancel it!

 

[TOareaFan]

The outgoing mayors would take the heat while getting something done. McGuinty gets books cleaned up and while stating the tax was by popular demand (forced even) and can still go to a lot of ribbon cuttings.

I don't think there is enough time to implement something like that though.

In a lot of those areas you list, the outgoing Mayors and the incoming mayors are the same people! Don't let regime change in Toronto fool you to assume that it is regime change all over.

 

[CDL.TO]

Make of it what you will, but a downtown Toronto MPP suggested to me that one of the driving factors behind the funding cut was because the city was failing to move fast enough with the plans. It was stated that there was absolutely no way that the city would have managed to build all the lines within the next five years at the pace they are moving and that the government still plans to fully fund the lines, just over a more realistic time line. This move will get the debt off the books and will help ensure that budgets for these projects are properly managed.

 

[rbt]

In a lot of those areas you list, the outgoing Mayors and the incoming mayors are the same people! Don't let regime change in Toronto fool you to assume that it is regime change all over.

Some will not be re-elected despite running (Vaughan especially, possibly Scarpetti). Others, like Hazel and Fennell (sp?) can request it and get away with it. No-one in Durham Region would be able to make the request but the province can force it to be GTA wide (vast majority requesting it) and point to large upgrades in GO transit coming up for the East.

Of course, none of this will happen as the timeline is far too short.

 

[rbt]

Make of it what you will, but a downtown Toronto MPP suggested to me that one of the driving factors behind the funding cut was because the city was failing to move fast enough with the plans.

For SRT I believe this, but Eglinton is ready for a TBM order and Finch could be tendered within 6 months. Contractors wouldn't be an issue for a spring 2011 start for either line.

There is good reason to move the debt off the books but I don't think the city can be blamed in this instance. The various election discussions about re-evaluating the lines is a more likely reason.

 

[GraphicMatt]

That sounds like one of Glen Murray's excuses (one of many), but I think it's a little fishy given that I heard Metrolinx was responsible for many of the delays in planning and they're essentially a provincial agency.

 

[Mapleson]

At this point, it's just a paper exercise to push back the bulk of spending a year and a half and magically, the budget becomes more balanced. The 8-year and 10-year timeframes are only applicable if the Liberals win the next two elections and maintain power for the next decade. What is does indicate though is that the Government of Ontario/OLP hasn't lost faith in the need for TC and the rest of the Big Move, but has lost/reduced ability to fund it freely.

This election is a big one as the Canada Social Transfer and Canada Health Transfer pacts between proviencial and federal governments will expire in 2014. That means whoever wins next will dictate the relationship between the two levels of government for most of the next decade. Federal transfers will grow by 3% annually until 2013-2014. It comes down to if you trust the LPO will continue to fund transit (at 50% or 80% of pre-recession levels, but still higher than previous), if you trust the ONDP to be fiscally disiplined, or if you trust the PCPO to leave a good thing alone and not cut funding.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

What is does indicate though is that the Government of Ontario/OLP hasn't lost faith in the need for TC and the rest of the Big Move, but has lost/reduced ability to fund it freely.

Yes, faith is required to see the need for Transit City.

 

[CDL.TO]

That sounds like one of Glen Murray's excuses (one of many), but I think it's a little fishy given that I heard Metrolinx was responsible for many of the delays in planning and they're essentially a provincial agency.

A provincial agency is exactly what Metrolinx is.

I think delays have come from both sides. The city says Metrolinx is stalling because they dare to question whether LRT in a median and a tunnel is the optimal solution for Eglinton and Metrolinx says the city is stalling because they still haven't figured many important design requirements, such as the interface at Kennedy Station and the ongoing work on the Spadina extenion.

The same MPP was also saying that he wasn't too fond of Metrolinx. Maybe it's time for the province to lay down the law and tell everyone to speed things up, or to rectify the jurisdictional squabbling that continues to occur.

 

[Mapleson]

Yes, faith is required to see the need for Transit City.

Really? While people argue about how TC is implemented, I haven't seen many/any people saying "Public transit? We don't need more public transit." The GTHA needs more rapid transit (which should allow better distribution of local transit). Metrolinx is the one that's thinking of delaying TC so that GO network expansion can occur, BRTs can be built, and real LRT lines established.

On the City vs Metrolinx about Eglington, I think we'll see over the next two years a refinement of TC so it makes more sense. It doesn't really matter who is to responsible for delaying a project that is being delayed. What does matter is the detailed design and making use of the time we do have.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

If the Kennedy station interface is delaying Eglinton, it needs to be noted that the same problem didn't delay Sheppard, whose middle section was full steam ahead before they figured out what they were doing at Don Mills, or where they were terminating it in the east, or how it would affect busy connecting bus routes like the 190. If Eglinton West had a stubway from the Allen to Black Creek, Eglinton would probably already be seeing utility relocations.

Really? While people argue about how TC is implemented, I haven't seen many/any people saying "Public transit? We don't need more public transit." The GTHA needs more rapid transit (which should allow better distribution of local transit). Metrolinx is the one that's thinking of delaying TC so that GO network expansion can occur, BRTs can be built, and real LRT lines established.

Better transit is needed, therefore Transit City is needed. If that's what you think, that's a serious lapse in logic.

Let's build 7 parallel underground monorail lines on Bayview up to Newmarket, then, if transit anywhere, in any form is what's needed. Who cares what we build, just build something, anything! Who cares where it goes or who it helps or what it costs, it's now or never! Single mothers in Malvern and Rexdale will drop dead on their local buses if Transit City is delayed even one more minute!