[afransen]

A 2nd E-W heavy rail line needs to happen within the inner and outer downtown core after the OL is constructed, specifically for the area west of University. If the OL's priority is connectivity and more express-type service between the local and regional (GO) network, then a theoretical rapid transit line would serve as a more localized service alternative. Ultimately, a future rapid transit connection to the Liberty Village Station is also a must. One way to achieve that connection is a King line through downtown and up Dufferin St as others have proposed. A westward OL extension should then move along the railway corridor and hit desperately needed transit nodes in Parkdale and Humber Bay, which allows for connectivity with the proposed Park Lawn GO station.

An easterly extension of the King line would ideally cross the Don River/DVP and traverse Queen, linking with OL at Riverside and moving east towards the Beaches, likely terminating at Woodbine. A branch into the Portland's would be achieved with a proper streetcar connection with Cherry streetcar at Sumach. The key factors favouring a Dufferin St rapid transit line is the massive redevelopment potential along that street but also massive redevelopments either occurring or in development at Dufferin Mall (Bloor), the Galleria (Dupont) as well as E-W development along Dupont, and at St. Clair between Stockyards and Dufferin.

Aren't streetcars more effective at providing local transit? Especially given how deep new downtown subways will need to be. I'd say increase transit priority for streetcars and let them handle local circulation, and subways with more spaced stops. Especially given the monumental expense of stations. We aren't going to be able to repeat the shallow cut and cover stations we built 50 years ago downtown.

 

[asher__jo]

Interesting to see that the official plan has the Ontario Line curving north to Roncesvalle, terminating at Dundas West station. One would assume with stations at Sorauren/Queen and Roncesvalles/Dundas/Howard Park. Had someone mentioned that before?

View attachment 397896

I think it's been proposed by Multiple relief line plans from decades prior. It also seemed to be the most logical route, with people mentioning Dufferin as a compelling if unlikely alternative (myself included). Metrolinx considering this routing to Roncesvalles I think is high considering possibility of running the rails along a GO corridor. Also may allow them to use station placement to create a convenient connection to Dundas West TTC and Bloor UP stations.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I think it's been proposed by Multiple relief line plans from decades prior. It also seemed to be the most logical route, with people mentioning Dufferin as a compelling if unlikely alternative (myself included). Metrolinx considering this routing to Roncesvalles I think is high considering possibility of running the rails along a GO corridor. Also may allow them to use station placement to create a convenient connection to Dundas West TTC and Bloor UP stations.

Above all, remember how detailed OPs really are about transportation. Especially where they‘ve got a note about alignment still being undetermined there’s a lot of leeway as is, while an OP amendment to change that is basically a non-issue on the scale of transit infrastructure projects.

 

[Translude15]

Aren't streetcars more effective at providing local transit? Especially given how deep new downtown subways will need to be. I'd say increase transit priority for streetcars and let them handle local circulation, and subways with more spaced stops. Especially given the monumental expense of stations. We aren't going to be able to repeat the shallow cut and cover stations we built 50 years ago downtown.

Localized in the context of Line 2 type stop spacing. With increased densification, a higher capacity E-W line will be necessary in 50 years beyond streetcars and with GO expansion, to avoid overburdening Union. I'm not saying streetcars aren't necessary, they certainly are, but an additional link to supplement that network.

 

[afransen]

I just doubt we'll practically be building downtown lines with 500m stop spacing. We could squeeze a lot more capacity out of surface streetcar routes and that would be more effective and lower cost.

 

[nfitz]

I think it's been proposed by Multiple relief line plans from decades prior.

I meant it being added to the official plan in 2020. There's line pretty much everywhere if you look at various options ... heck, I think even I have suggested Roncesvalles at some point here - extending at least Keele/St. Clair to provide good destinations for the 506 and 512, which would drive reverse flow.

 

[torontologist]

When the PCs win another majority in June, I’m fairly certain we’ll see a promise to extend the Ontario Line west into southern Etobicoke before the end of 2025. Ford considers delivering subways to Etobicoke his legacy; there’s no way he’s gonna pass this up.

 

[ARG1]

Localized in the context of Line 2 type stop spacing. With increased densification, a higher capacity E-W line will be necessary in 50 years beyond streetcars and with GO expansion, to avoid overburdening Union. I'm not saying streetcars aren't necessary, they certainly are, but an additional link to supplement that network.

The thing is we can't really build Line 2 style subway lines anymore. The only way to do that even remotely affordably would be cut and cover construction, and even then there are simply too many things in the way for that to be feasible in 2022. As such, any new subway line would have to be built deep (maybe not 40m, but 30m certainly), and such depth would mean that using the subway to travel locally would be way too time consuming. By the time you reach the platform and leave the other station, you could've just waited and got on a streetcar. The time savings of having a subway completely erodes.

 

[Rainforest]

Interesting to see that the official plan has the Ontario Line curving north to Roncesvalle, terminating at Dundas West station. One would assume with stations at Sorauren/Queen and Roncesvalles/Dundas/Howard Park. Had someone mentioned that being in the OP before?

View attachment 397896

Yep, I noticed this as well.

The route could change by the time they get to the design phase, but this is the way they see it now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

When the PCs win another majority in June, I’m fairly certain we’ll see a promise to extend the Ontario Line west into southern Etobicoke before the end of 2025. Ford considers delivering subways to Etobicoke his legacy; there’s no way he’s gonna pass this up.

Planning transit routes based on legacy? Yuck.

 

[Undead]

Planning transit routes based on legacy? Yuck.

Mel Lastman says hi

 

[torontologist]

Yep, I noticed this as well.

The route could change by the time they get to the design phase, but this is the way they see it now.

That's the way the City sees it. The province calls the shots now and will own the Ontario Line. The City can design whatever it wants, but it's not gonna sway much.

The province's long-term plan (vision?) announced March 10 or so has the Ontario Line eventually forming a loop around much of the existing subway network. It's going to Etobicoke and then up to the airport.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's the way the City sees it. The province calls the shots now and will own the Ontario Line. The City can design whatever it wants, but it's not gonna sway much.

The province's long-term plan (vision?) announced March 10 or so has the Ontario Line eventually forming a loop around much of the existing subway network. It's going to Etobicoke and then up to the airport.

Depends on who wins the election really.

 

[asher__jo]

Depends on who wins the election really.

Exactly. And Toronto has clearly influenced planning of the Ontario line, it's really a refinement rather than a complete scrapping of the RL.

 

[sixrings]

Depends on who wins the election really.

We know whose winning the election. The ndp arent going to win and I could be standing directly beside the liberal candidate and not recognize him.

He’s had terrible marketing despite me liking a buck a transit ride significantly better than a buck a beer.