Bordercollie
Senior Member
If Toronto had an intermodal port they could use containers to move goods from Toronto to the north.
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- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
Allandale25
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
The Port of Toronto still has container loading/unloading capability and its web site indicates that in 2020 it transloaded about 350 containers.
I am not aware if any of those arrived orleft by rail….. I doubt that many if any did….. more likely by truck
I’m quite sure there was never full-trainload container traffic, but perhaps a carload or two turned up once or twice.
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
You are forgetting 144.That gets closed too often as well.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I'm surprised it was even that many.
Great Lakes container shipping is minimal and limited to domestic/trans-border, simply by virtue of the fact that most blue water container ships can't get past Montreal.
True, although it seems moreso for collisions rather than weather. I've been watching (but not counting) and I'll bet Hwys 11 and 17 have been closed around a dozen times this winter for weather, sometimes at the same time, which precludes any domestic detour routing.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Well, where are those containers coming from China being unloaded in the GTA? AFAIK both the CP and CN main yards in the GTA have unloading/loading facilities.
Most road closures are not for actual bad weather, but the accidents caused by bad weather.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Gotta argue with you there, bud, at least as it relates to northern Ontario, as well as western Ontario areas such as Grey, Bruce and Huron and Perth counties. Highway are typically closed preemptively. The primary driver is visibility. I don't know what the practice is now but when I worked up there, when the MTO pulled its trucks because they simply can't see, the signs went up. It is mostly caused by blowing snow but there were a couple of spots along Superior where simply 'precipitation-per-hour' could do it.
My comment was in relation to the Port of Toronto comment above it. Overseas containers arriving in Ontario are mostly coming from either coast via rail.
crs1026
Superstar
Here is an article on the topic. Montreal is an active hub for marine container distribution with ships hauling to local ports on the east coast, presumably because it has the optimal combination of speedy rail transport to bypass the Seaway and maximum length of the marine segment to lower cost. And a suitable terminal infrastructure….. I suspect there is an economy of scale threshold that a port needs before it can become a hub, and Toronto just ain’t there.
- Paul
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micheal_can
Senior Member
11 and 144 usually gets closed due to accidents. Also, it seems the only reason 17 gets closed is due to accidents.
You meant Marine traffic?
I thought you meant container traffic overall.
lenaitch
Senior Member
You need to follow Ontario 511 or northern news more. Best I can review Hwy 17 north of The Soo was closed six times in the past week alone, once for a collision. From my time up there that is not atypical during the winter. Hwy 11 from Geraldton/Longlac to Hearst, while not as frequent, has been closed several times this winter for weather. If you are just looking at northeastern Ontario in the Sudbury/North Bay Timmins area, then you are probably right
The whole discussion about containers started with a post about the new ONR container yard then expanded into comments about the Port of Toronto. The vast majority of international container traffic arrives in the GTA and Ontario as a whole, via rail.
smallspy
Senior Member
CP at one point in the late 1980s scheduled a container service from the Port (I don't know where from, admittedly), but it did not last long at all. Service was provided on 89-foot flats, rather than with well cars.
Another reason why Montreal rates better - it's a deepwater port with virtually no vessel limitations. (Yes, there are some draft limitations, but no others.) Vessels proceeding to Toronto however have to deal with the size constraints of the St Lawrence Seaway.
In any case, there are lots of places in Toronto where containers can be loaded, it doesn't just have to be the port.
Dan
micheal_can
Senior Member
Sorry for the confusion. I mean 17 between the Ottawa Valley and the Soo. North of the Soo, you are right, it is mainly bad weather.
Also, I mean south of Timmins for 11.
I thought the intermodal yards such as the Macmillan Yard for CN were part of the Port of Toronto.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
There is space at Agincourt to build an intermodal terminal. Where would they be exchanging cars?
micheal_can
Senior Member
ONR bought a 5 well car. They could send it south and then back up as they would be destined for Moosonee.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
But they need to exchange cars with CP. Would they bring the cars to North Bay? And then CP would take it to Toronto? All you need is a siding with road access and a one of these. https://images.app.goo.gl/6NGujh4w8r4tGD5i8