[AnarchoSocialist]

2013 for tunneling according to the public schedules. Likely will have alternative project delivery however so no real certainty but the end date.

Your right. The new website does say 2013. According to this staff report it looks like Train won't be a separate project anymore. In fact it states that once construction at stations starts and bus service is removed it will not return. It also gives a slight overview of how they plan to divert bus services during construction time which is interesting to see (and going to be a challenge while it is in place).

Edit: This recent article from the Ottawa Citizen talks about the NCC re-examining plans for a Ottawa-Gatineau LRT loop. Nothing too exciting but Alex Cullen does make a good point that with the Ottawa LRT project in the planning stages the NCC may be interested in taking advantage of the timing and integrating it into their plans. It says a report will be issued next month. Will be curious to see what happens.

There is actually an official Interprovincial Transit Strategy website up now. It doesn't have many details about plans only saying that a report will be released May 2010. There general mandate is to find better ways of integrating transit in the region, mostly in the downtown areas, so aside from a potential loop project this would also be the group that would look at issues such as STO buses on Rideau and Wellington, using the Prince of Wales bridge for rail, and other transit issues.

While I am at it here a few other links that some might find interesting. There are other Transitway projects underway but these are the ones that are directly related to LRT expansion (not the first phase but central for the wave of extensions once the downtown section is done).

West Transitway Connection EA: This would complete the missing link between Pinecrest and the North-South Transitway that heads to Baseline. The Pinecrest to Bayshore section was recently open so this is really the last project that would make conversion of the Transitway to LRT from Lincoln Fields to Bayshore relatively quick and painless.

West Transitway Extension EA: This would add the missing section between Bayshore and Kanata Centrum. There is an initial report available on the Bayshore to Moodie Drive section available here. This is another project meant to make quick expansion of the LRT network possible by doing all the construction required aside from actually laying tracks.

Baseline Station: Here is a wiki link since I can't find an official update page for the project. The site also has a new Algonquin College building going and more is being planned so it is an area that should see a lot of change in the coming years.

Western Corridor (Tunneys Pasture to Baseline Station and Carling Avenue) LRT EA: This EA is odd because it looks at both the Transitway LRT line and a Carling LRT line. I am not sure if they are supposed to be considered separate or as equal alternatives to LRT in the western part of the city. Aside from the LRT line on Carling the two options considered are a parkway route and a Richmond/Byron route. Since the NCC has nixed the parkway idea, that just leaves one option. No dates for public consultations and open houses have been set yet but I suspect that will change by the end of the summer.

Plans for the current O-Train line are not exactly clear. The new Bayview Station design is clearly designed to allow for a connection from the North-South line. And the new website says the existing line will converted from diesel to electric during phase one of increment two of the Transportation Master Plan. Whether it will be converted so it can open alongside the rest of the LRT line or will start once the line is open I am not sure since I have yet to find anything that identifies a clear timeline.

Last Edit (Seriously...maybe): I came across a few more interesting things. First is the original North-South EA from 2004 which also included the surface rail portion through downtown (this was the project that was killed off by Mayor O'Brien. I have posted this because as far as I can tell most of the North-South line from Bayview to Riverside is still planned and it seems that much of this EA is still applicable when the time comes to build this section (though I am going to send off an email to confirm this for sure).

Below is a picture of Phase One of the LRT plan (click here or the picture for a high resolution PDF version). And here is the link for Phase 2 which is not that much different in terms of LRT other than a spur to the airport and LRT on Carling. At this point I suspect Phase 2 is likely to change (the airport spur will be built but I am guessing LRT to Kanata will come before LRT on Carling).

]

Phase 1 (as of the 2008 Transportation Master Plan) will be done in three increments. The first is the downtown portion (Tunneys to Blair and includes the transit tunnel through downtown). The second will see the LRT line from Baywview to South Keys converted to a twinned, electrified LRT line and extension from Tunneys to Baseline. The third would see the North-South line extended from South Keys to Riverside Town Center. Of course these are likely to change but this is the current timeline the city is working with.

It is easy to see how priorities have changed even in just a few years. The Pinecrest - Lincoln Fields Transitway link was not planned until Phase 2 but it is already being pushed forward as an important project. Likewise North-South line extensions into Barrhaven have been dropped.

 

[gweed123]

Wow! So I guess the myth "Bus can bypass each other" is blown out of the water! I thought the Brisbane backup was bad.

They can bypass eachother at most stations. Outside of downtown, all of the stations are 4 lanes (2 for thru-travel, 2 for stopping). It's only in downtown where it's a dedicated lane and not it's own ROW that this happens. And this is why I'm not opposed to the current LRT plan, because it will add this extra capacity. However, I don't see this as a reason to dismiss BRT as a whole. BRT is working well. The problem in Ottawa is that it's working too well, and the system can't handle it anymore. You can't fault BRT when the system is beyond it's design capacity.

 

[gweed123]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ottawa runs a lot of bus routes that overlap a huge amount (not saying this is a bad thing) - by that I mean a lot of them will go along one central street and branch out to many many different routes?

Yes, there are 3 main bus routes that all pass through the downtown, and then branch out to the different parts of the city. The part of the system with the least capacity is also the part of the system that's handling the most. Which is the root of the problem. Increase the capacity through the downtown, and the system would work very well. Outside of the downtown, it's an extremely efficient system. Outside of peak hours, it's an extremely efficient system.

 

[kEiThZ]

Wow! So I guess the myth "Bus can bypass each other" is blown out of the water! I thought the Brisbane backup was bad.

Except that the places where congestion happens is in the core where virtually every bus needs to stop at every stop. This is their equivalent of Yonge/Bloor. And the LRT is their equivalent of the DRL. They will still be expanding the transitway out in the burbs. In fact they are building more kms of BRT than LRT in the next few years.

 

[kEiThZ]

It is easy to see how priorities have changed even in just a few years. The Pinecrest - Lincoln Fields Transitway link was not planned until Phase 2 but it is already being pushed forward as an important project. Likewise North-South line extensions into Barrhaven have been dropped.

Yes. They got a mayor with common sense who realized that after spending 800 million dollars, Ottawa would not achieve an ounce of relief and they would be right back to where they started in a few years, with severe bus congestion in the core. Except, this time the LRT would be taking up surface roadspace, reducing room for buses and because the LRT would be severely under-utilized, OC Transpo would not have realized the savings from operations to actually build anything else. Yet, there will still be people who say they should have built the mistake anyway, because something is better than nothing. That argument sound familiar?

 

[hbl33]

Ottawa, Vancouver looks fitter day by day. Toronto is suffering from traffic obesity. The city needs gastric bypass surgery. FAST!

 

[gweed123]

Ottawa, Vancouver looks fitter day by day. Toronto is suffering from traffic obesity. The city needs gastric bypass surgery. FAST!

Toronto is suffering from Transit Anorexia. And giving it soup and crackers (Transit City) isn't going to solve anything. This city needs a Double Big Mac Meal.

 

[nfitz]

Toronto is suffering from Transit Anorexia. And giving it soup and crackers (Transit City) isn't going to solve anything. This city needs a Double Big Mac Meal.

Perhaps you should read The Big Move. Transit City is merely a fraction of the plan, which includes subways, and regional express trains.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

Yes. They got a mayor with common sense who realized that after spending 800 million dollars, Ottawa would not achieve an ounce of relief and they would be right back to where they started in a few years, with severe bus congestion in the core. Except, this time the LRT would be taking up surface roadspace, reducing room for buses and because the LRT would be severely under-utilized, OC Transpo would not have realized the savings from operations to actually build anything else. Yet, there will still be people who say they should have built the mistake anyway, because something is better than nothing. That argument sound familiar?

Though there are a lot of things I dislike about O'Brien it was clear almost immediately that he understood what really needed to be done for transit in Ottawa.

What happened in Ottawa also proves something which I have believed about transit...that people will support transit...even large projects...if they are well planned, logical, and make economic sense. The previous plans failed and didnt gain widespread support none of the plans were that great, and some were just stupid. Each one had more than enough flaws and reasons to criticize it that it was almost inevitable they would never get off the ground.

This project is the most expensive proposal, and the most ambitious. But it also makes the most sense. It will actually meet the cities needs for decades to come, will improve speed and reliability, and make downtown a bit better by removing a lot of buses. And it is no coincidence that is has also gained such strong support. It will take a bit longer but that is a trade off that is well worth it. Details and maximum benefit to the public matter. A lot of advocates, in all cities, really fail to get that point.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

However, I don't see why they're rebuilding the stations, given that they're already a pretty decent size, and have platforms that are long enough for LRT already. I'm sure there's a reason though, I just don't know what it is off the top of my head.

I take back what I said earlier about the stations. I didn't realize until taking a full look around the website that they were doing all new stations (this is the first plan where they have all been redone). The video made a comment about covering the stations from the elements, so I would guess that is why they are redoing them (though a lot of them will probably be simple enough to redo; just tear down the old shelters, pour a new platform and make a roof over it all).

I actually hope the design turns out like they are showing in this round of renderings. Some stations are just flat roofs or covered with park but others (such as Bayview below) have a rather cool, retro look.

 

[Justin10000]

They can bypass eachother at most stations. Outside of downtown, all of the stations are 4 lanes (2 for thru-travel, 2 for stopping). It's only in downtown where it's a dedicated lane and not it's own ROW that this happens. And this is why I'm not opposed to the current LRT plan, because it will add this extra capacity. However, I don't see this as a reason to dismiss BRT as a whole. BRT is working well. The problem in Ottawa is that it's working too well, and the system can't handle it anymore. You can't fault BRT when the system is beyond it's design capacity.

I know the Transitway system quite well. There is more than enough rooom for the buses to bypass any obstruction on the section between Waller St, and where the bus turn on the ROW. If buses were so versatile, they would not need a ROW to bypass any obstruction, not being stuck on rails or anything. Clearly OC Transpo could not take advantage of the supposed benefits of BRT.

That blockage looks like it extends nearly to Lees Station too.

 

[kEiThZ]

I know the Transitway system quite well. There is more than enough rooom for the buses to bypass any obstruction on the section between Waller St, and where the bus turn on the ROW. If buses were so versatile, they would not need a ROW to bypass any obstruction, not being stuck on rails or anything. Clearly OC Transpo could not take advantage of the supposed benefits of BRT.

That blockage looks like it extends nearly to Lees Station too.

First, I don't think using photos of a one-off incident is really truthful as a depiction of regular service of the system.

Next, while there maybe enough room for buses to pass, it does not mean that there's enough room for the buses to stop. And that's a problem when virtually every bus on that stretch needs to stop at every stop/station. That means they have to stick to the bus lane and queue up so they can stop at the upcoming station. That's what's causing congestion.

Lastly, if BRT is so bad, can you explain why OC Transpo is building more BRT than LRT in the future?

 

[kEiThZ]

Though there are a lot of things I dislike about O'Brien it was clear almost immediately that he understood what really needed to be done for transit in Ottawa.

Yet, there are some on here (like nfitz for example) who despise him because he cancelled a deeply flawed project. After all, something is better than nothing right? Better to build something so flawed that is financially cripples the transit system for decades than not build anything at all, right?

For all his flaws, O'Brien was the smartest man in Ottawa when it comes to transit. He was the only candidate at the time who saw that after spending $800 million that the project would still not fulfill its raison d'etre: relieving bus congestion in the core. And thankfully for Ottawa residents, he had the courage to push for what was right.

OC Transpo has now come out and said that the new LRT will save them $100 million per year in operational costs, which means that they will be able to easily recoup the extra money they are spending on this plan:

http://ottawastart.com/story/11055.php

In fact, they are so confident that they are now planning to go ahead, even if the province and the feds don't kick up their full one third shares. An incremental plan (a lot of is still BRT) that a city can afford to implement on their own in a steady and consistent manner. Crazy concept....

 

[Justin10000]

First, I don't think using photos of a one-off incident is really truthful as a depiction of regular service of the system.

Next, while there maybe enough room for buses to pass, it does not mean that there's enough room for the buses to stop. And that's a problem when virtually every bus on that stretch needs to stop at every stop/station. That means they have to stick to the bus lane and queue up so they can stop at the upcoming station. That's what's causing congestion.

Lastly, if BRT is so bad, can you explain why OC Transpo is building more BRT than LRT in the future?

In other words, Buses cannot pass each other without passing lanes. Definitely not an advantage over LRT, as BRT advocates love to claim.
Wy do you assume I think BRT is bad? I am pointing out the fact buses cannot just go around blockages as BRT advocates love to preach.
Much of the new BRT construction is occuring in the suburbs, where LRT is probably not justifed, much of the existing Transitway is slated to be converted to LRT, no? Personally, I think the LRT should extend to Barrhaven from Baseline.

 

[gweed123]

Perhaps you should read The Big Move. Transit City is merely a fraction of the plan, which includes subways, and regional express trains.

I have read it. I have done papers on it. I have even listened to a presentation by the former chair of Metrolinx. The fact of the matter is there is only 1 subway line being proposed within the 416 under the Metrolinx RTP, and it is under the 25 year tiimeframe. Perhaps you shouldn't assume that I'm ignorant, and just accept that we have differing opinions, and that mine is just as valid and educated as yours is.

My point is that getting a few piecemeal LRT lines here and there will not substantially improve the quality of transit in the GTA.