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CapitalSeven said:
There are no curves on the system that are much tighter than the King to Union curve in Toronto, around 400 feet. At the same time, the storage yard has much tighter ones, and we have not heard of any issues there. These are essentially LRVs, not heavy rail. There seem to be some problems with the type of rail and the way it is laid that are a little too complex for me.

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You can't compare mainline curves to stuff out in the yard.

The mainline curves need to be built to a higher standard, with higher superelevation/cant, and maintained to a higher standard as well. They will see far higher usage and speeds.

Curves in the yards are passed at walking speed and by not nearly as much traffic, and so the track doesn't need to be kept to nearly as high a standard.

This is why a lot of systems will state that their "mainline minimum" is one number, and their "yard minimum" (or something similar) is a different, smaller number.

One other thing to consider - if a derailment does occur, where would you rather have it? (Of course, the answer is "nowhere", but you still need to plan for eventualities.) A derailment on the mainline can and will disrupt service for hours or more. A low-speed derailment in the yard may cause some temporary disruption to some of the fleet getting into or out of service, but the equipment to re-rail the train is nearby and so it shouldn't be a long process to get things back to normal.

Dan
 
Good points. But it is not the case that any curves in the main line are too sharp by design, but rather that they were not built correctly in fact. This is causing the noise and damage issues, resulting in the slow orders that are currently frustrating riders and transit wonks.

Alstom states that the vehicle is suitable for streetcar service and has a turning radius of 25 meters, or 82 feet. So the repeated stuff about "sharp curves" leads to misunderstanding the problems.
 
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CapitalSeven said:
Good points. But it is not the case that any curves in the main line are too sharp by design, but rather that they were not built correctly in fact. This is causing the noise and damage issues, resulting in the slow orders that are currently frustrating riders and transit wonks.

Alstom states that the vehicle is suitable for streetcar service and has a turning radius of 25 meters, or 82 feet. So the repeated stuff about "sharp curves" leads to misunderstanding the problems.
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But by changing the curve structure or increasing the distance of the track will result in the miss alignment of all of the mile markers past that point. How can that be resolved?
 
CapitalSeven said:
Good points. But it is not the case that any curves in the main line are too sharp by design, but rather that they were not built correctly in fact. This is causing the noise and damage issues, resulting in the slow orders that are currently frustrating riders and transit wonks.
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It's not necessarily a matter of being "correct" or not.

There are a whole ton of variables that go into the rail-wheel interface, but in North America most of them are generally fairly well fixed when it comes to rapid transit. Rail cant doesn't really vary (outside of streetcars/street railways), but the tread angle is usually flatter (1:20 is pretty standard on mainline trains) on rapid transit equipment as hunting isn't an issue at the speeds involved, and it helps with going around tight curves more easily.

And yet despite the fact that the materials are the same, track standards are quite different in Europe. Wheel profiles are different, superelevation is different, switch design is different, even the track fasteners are different......etc. While it seems to me that they didn't spec enough superelevation on the curves, I also wonder if they are using a European wheel profile - and maybe one that isn't particularly well suited for this usage case. I would have hoped (or assumed) that the initial specs for the line would have called all of this information out, but as we've seen elsewhere (MBTA's Type 8 cars are the most glaring example off of the top of my head) sometimes that isn't the case.

Of course, I'm writing all of this without reading the report. I really do need to get to that.

Dan
 
CharmAlarm said:
Good times ahead for Eglinton, Finch West, Hurontario lines...

Why Ottawa's LRT inquiry holds lessons for Metrolinx and the GTA​

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I don't think we are going to have anywhere near the problems with the lines they did. Both Metrolink and the TTC aren't going to open it until they are both satisfied that it can operate with no problems. Two we are probably going to see at least three months of service testing without passengers before they open it to the public much as they did with the extension of line 1 when they ran ghost trains for three months before it opened. Only then if there aren't any problems will the city of Toronto isn't going to push the opening like the city of Ottawa did.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I don't think we are going to have anywhere near the problems with the lines they did. Both Metrolink and the TTC aren't going to open it until they are both satisfied that it can operate with no problems. Two we are probably going to see at least three months of service testing without passengers before they open it to the public much as they did with the extension of line 1 when they ran ghost trains for three months before it opened. Only then if there aren't any problems will the city of Toronto isn't going to push the opening like the city of Ottawa did.
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I think for the Crosstown it won't be so much when its running its the construction phase there have been tons of issues.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
what issues are you talking about?
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It's currently looking to be opened 4 years later than the 2020 they were talking about when the switched to PPP (which was already a delay from the original plan to open incrementally, starting in 2016). And then there's the $1 billion (and counting) overrun. How does that even happen with a PPP - other than the surprises at Eglinton.

Crosslinx and Metrolink seem to be at a legal impasse - and we all know just how horrendous Metrolink's legal capabilities are - after they ended up having to pay huge penalties to Bombardier after they unilaterally reduced the streetcar order because of performance issues that were never proven.

And then there's this:
 
Allandale25 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1611363912422948864
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Lets bring this forward for those lacking previews and the click-averse:

1673023322890.png
 
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