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Um, you missed one, how about increasing sales/revenue.
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Um, by doing what...giving out a free slice of pizza with every ride? There's no way some green private transit operator is going to be able to improve service and/or cut fares to better what the TTC can do being subsidized, and make a profit at it.


(yes, let's start a debate about the existence or lack thereof of efficiencies in the private sector vs. public, that'd be fun)
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Ok...go

(just make sure it is specifically private transit operator X vs the TTC...not just some vague private sector vs public sector analogies)


I imagine someone is about to post that poorly used routes would likely be dumped....as they should be. If you want transit, use it or lose it.
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They wouldn't be dumped...they would just never be wanted by a for-profit private transit operator in the first place. Problem is, either the TTC would be stuck operating it, and would have to dump it or reduce service because private companies have the juicy routes that no longer subsidize the not-so-great ones.

Your use-it-or-lose-it scenario is also a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. The TTC is mostly choice riders. Those dink routes feed the money-making ones. Cut them or reduce service, and not only that route loses its ridership, but so does the money-making routes they all transfer onto.

The TTC runs a delicately balanced system (a very key word here)...everything has an effect on everything else. And with so many choice riders, even more delicate. That's why they try and maintain consistent, highly connected service on all routes as much as possible.

The trick is to improve service on less cost efficient route...not reduce it.


The current system is not working, as we're being held ransom by the employees. It's time to rejig the balance of power towards those that pay for the system as opposed to those that work in it.
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You need to get beyond this strike.

First of all, private companies are not immune to unions.

Secondly, what makes you think private transit operator X is going to be successful at hiring, training and maintaining top-notch employees at supposed bargain wages, when the TTC can't get enough employees with their supposed instant millionaire wages?



If one reads the services changes, they will see TTC stills kill the idea of running bus service from the Condo's at Humber Bay to the city core.
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Ya know...we're talking about a complex government and transit system here...
citing little individual cases is not going to solve anything...you can come up with problems no matter what happens....cause it will never be perfect.
 
For starters I think that would effectively kill the absurd $27/hour wage bus drivers are currently paid by separating a significant part of the union and dividing it further into companies. I believe regular school bus drivers make around $17/hour which would be huge savings.
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They already have trouble getting enough drivers at the current wages. You think this will get easier with a major pay cut?
 
299 bloor call control. said:
On the contrary. There are plenty of people applying to become TTC Operators. It's just that many don't get through the required tests and training.
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Okay, but does that mean we need to reduce the testing and training? Might not be a good idea, and may open the TTC up to lawsuits from the public if someone is injured by an ill-trained bus driver.
 
My view is that outsourcing should be left to areas that are outside the TTC's "core business" of moving people. I do not support outsourcing and fragmenting the transit operations - I don't think it has worked well in London, though in that case, it works well compared to other British Cities.

In London, there's a strong central authority, TfL, and a consistent fare system. All the buses are red, and there's only the operator's logo on the side. In other cities, like Sheffield or Manchester, the buses are operated by separate companies, there's no fare integration, buses are all different colours, each operator issues its own map, and there's a weak Transport Executive managing all of this.

As I've said before, the first thing to outsource is elevating device maintenance. They are fustratingly inefficient compared to the crews from Otis or otherwise.

Stuff like track maintenance are so specialized, it's better to do it in-house. Vehicle repairs and overhauls are also done very efficiently, so it's a shame that the maintenance people are so militant.

Janitorial services is also an easy target. Though in this case, it means replacing well-paid union workers with poorly paid contract employees. And if you talk about that, you're talking about the mother-of-all-strikes. (They walked out illegally over changing the janitors' schedules!)

I'd like to replace the janitor work description with a more all-encompassing role that would clean, but also re-start stopped escalators, assist with fare collection at busy times, and answer questions from passengers. They would be assigned to 1-3 stations (Bloor-Yonge might need two) based on need. It would help with security, at least being an an extra "eyes and ears".

The collectors, once the smart cards are added and fare collection is automated with serve similar roles, but have more to do with customer assistance and less to do with general cleaning. (Like they do in New York, Chicago and Washington)

I'm angry with the ATU (read my letter, given top billing in today's Star), but I'm not vindictive.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Okay, but does that mean we need to reduce the testing and training? Might not be a good idea, and may open the TTC up to lawsuits from the public if someone is injured by an ill-trained bus driver.
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thats assuming that private bus companies do not train/test their employees to the same rigorous standards as the TTC. considering the small number of bus accidents of coach or school buses I don't think thats a fair assumption to make.
 
SeanTrans said:
Vehicle repairs and overhauls are also done very efficiently, ........
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I have heard this before, but where is the evidence to this point?
 
Why not get rid of public transit altogether? Yes just get rid of the TTC!

Give everyone that can't afford a car a free Tata Nano instead, to be replaced for free every 8 years. Cost: $2000/family. They pay the fuel and insurance, the gov't pays for the car.

I bet it would be cheaper than running the TTC.
 
urbandreamer said:
Why not get rid of public transit altogether? Yes just get rid of the TTC!

Give everyone that can't afford a car a free Tata Nano instead, to be replaced for free every 8 years. Cost: $2000/family. They pay the fuel and insurance, the gov't pays for the car.

I bet it would be cheaper than running the TTC.
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Congestion... GHG emmissions... Reduced health from emissions... reduced health from walking... reduced social interaction...

I could go on and on and on and on....
 
SeanTrans said:
And if you talk about that, you're talking about the mother-of-all-strikes. (They walked out illegally over changing the janitors' schedules!)

I'd like to replace the janitor work description with a more all-encompassing role that would clean, but also re-start stopped escalators, assist with fare collection at busy times, and answer questions from passengers. They would be assigned to 1-3 stations (Bloor-Yonge might need two) based on need. It would help with security, at least being an an extra "eyes and ears".
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The problem there is that if they struck over schedules, there is no way they would consent to increasing their job description without striking or demanding a huge increase in pay. As well, I suspect many of them would not be qualified to assist in those manners without some type of (paid, and rightly so) training.
 
I said that this is what I'd like. I think it's reasonable anyway.

Ideally, I'd give them a choice - either accept the new job role (which would of course include paid training and maintained seniority and benefits, even a reasonable raise) or step aside for contracted cleaners. They'd strike, but the public would support the management here, and could just waltz over to Queen's Park to send 'em back.

They've done this elsewhere - in New York, Chicago, etc, collectors have become customer service agents. It is time for the TTC to change with the times. Too bad we have the worst union local to deal with. Even Buzz would wake up and smell the coffee.
 
It's here, in response to some twerp that's obviously a ATU maintenance guy.

Re:NDP takes unprincipled way out

Letter, April 28

In his letter concerning the NDP's support of back-to-work legislation for TTC workers, Greg Swiatek states that "workers' rights" are at stake. I would like to ask him what the real issues were that led to the strike. From what I understand, contracting out was not included in the bargained settlement, and in fact, the settlement endorsed by the president of Local 113 of the Amalgamated Transit Union was very generous and better than most workers in Toronto can expect.

Does Swiatek have any sympathy for the workers who rely on the TTC and were stranded or forced to pay expensive taxi fares or miss time at work due to the stoppage? These workers will typically make one-third to one-half of what the average TTC mechanic or driver makes, and many, particularly in the service industry, face the same risks of assault from the public. Does the TTC union support making other workers suffer over internal union matters?

With the sudden strike, which seems to have been based on false rumours and union in-fighting, the union has set back the labour movement, and only reduced public trust and sympathy.

The NDP was looking out for the interests of all workers when it supported the back-to-work legislation. The union has been rightly condemned by politicians of all stripes and by the public as a whole.

Here's his letter:

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/419002
 
While I disagree with NDP in principle, I think your letter is quite good at explaining a rather tricky position for both the party and those who support organized labour.
 
Janitorial services is also an easy target. Though in this case, it means replacing well-paid union workers with poorly paid contract employees. And if you talk about that, you're talking about the mother-of-all-strikes.
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no, but you can fire them for being bad workers.... That is possibile in any unions....
 
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