[Le Gique]

Here's a question: what pay do drivers at York Region Transit make? Because that service is private outsourced.

this is just from the connex (viva) contract, which is currently being renegotiated (by ATU 113!):

WAGES—FULL TIME TRANSIT OPERATORS
<snip>
EFFECTIVE SEPTEMBER 7, 2008 THE HOURLY RATE SHALL BE:
Start $18.03
After Completion of One Year of service $18.69
After Completion of Two Years of service $20.13
Upon completion of three (3) years' service $21.37

http://www.atucanada.ca/content_Resources_And_Publications/cba/indexm.asp

 

[ShonTron]

That's an interesting resource.

Brampton and Mississauga transit workers get paid almost the same as the TTC workers - both are fully owned and operated by the municipality as well.

Here's two more of the agreements for YRT.

Miller Transit - operates the Markham-based YRT routes:

Effective April 1, 2006
After Year 1: $15.53
After Year 2: $16.55
After Year 3: $20.01
(and 2.5% CPI or higher)

Can-Ar - operates the Vaughan-based YRT routes:
First year of service 15.91
Second Year of service 17.16
Third Year of service 18.38 (if hired after May 1, 2006)
Third Year of service 19.59 (if hired before May 1, 2006)
Upon completion of three (3) years' service 21.24

All the YRT operators appear to be covered by ATU 1587 - strange that there are different contracts.

 

[drum118]

I don't think it should be done with labour as the primary reason. I think the possibilty of new routes and expanded service would be the real benefit. It's easy to point out the $27/hr wages as a reason to explore outsourcing, and so it gets a lot of play. The real benefits come from ideas that require serious research and are therefore beyond the scope of this forum, but worth examining on a conceptual level.

Within the 18 months, the subway will be put in the hands of Metrolinx who will hire people to operate the lines and may obtain an company to run it.

If ATU 113 member want to apply for a position with Metrolinx or the company that will run it, they will have to take a pay cut.

At the sametime, there will be a no strike clause in the agreement for employees to sign when first hire.

They will wear the same uniform as rest of the GTAH systems.

 

[Voltz]

That's an interesting resource.

Brampton and Mississauga transit workers get paid almost the same as the TTC workers - both are fully owned and operated by the municipality as well.

Here's two more of the agreements for YRT.

Miller Transit - operates the Markham-based YRT routes:

Effective April 1, 2006
After Year 1: $15.53
After Year 2: $16.55
After Year 3: $20.01
(and 2.5% CPI or higher)

Can-Ar - operates the Vaughan-based YRT routes:
First year of service 15.91
Second Year of service 17.16
Third Year of service 18.38 (if hired after May 1, 2006)
Third Year of service 19.59 (if hired before May 1, 2006)
Upon completion of three (3) years' service 21.24

All the YRT operators appear to be covered by ATU 1587 - strange that there are different contracts.

The YRT Transit contracts are split up because there used to be a different transit system for each city in York Region

 

[RedRocket191]

The YRT Transit contracts are split up because there used to be a different transit system for each city in York Region

Correct.

Each transit system was contracted out. When YRT was created, the only thing that changed was the uniforms. The rumour was the York Region might be taking each division in-house when the contract expires, but i've been hearing that rumour for years.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

drum - is this more than speculation? I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, nor would I be against it either.

 

[drum118]

drum - is this more than speculation? I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, nor would I be against it either.

Keep your ear's open.

Metrolinx will become an operator a lot faster than I thought they would.

If they are an operator, then they will have full control over all systems. As an operator, they can subcontract work out at at lower rate then what we see today. York Region is an good example of this.

One idea is Metrolinx will have full control over all transit funding, hiring and purchasing.

Not going to save much money having an HR to do all the hiring for all positions in transit by Metrolinx vs Cities or Regions doing it.

Purchasing will be best left to Metrolinx, but I hate to think we will get the same crap from Orion that TTC gets these days vs NFI and Nova.

Funding will be interesting as who gets how much and what for.

How far will they drill down is still up in the air. Would it be better left to local systems to determined what route runs on what road or by Metrolinx?

Another word is GO is looking at providing service from Burlington/Oakville to Milton and Georgetown by Hwy 25 with test runs under way. This is a badly needed today and a real missing link in this area.

 

[Therion]

I don't think $27 is outrageous for TTC drivers, considering their dangerous and probably stressful job, and the higher cost of living in metro Toronto. I think the biggest problem is the average wages, which includes the aforementioned janitors, plus over 300 people who make over $100,000 a year. This figure is from that link that was posted in the transit strike thread. In addition, the benefits and pension package is also something to consider.

I think getting rid of the ticket monkeys is the first step to reducing labour costs. Most subways around the world are completely automated in this regard; I don't understand why the TTC still uses this outdated system. There are token machines in every entrance of every station. There's no need for some fatguy to sit there and watch me swipe my Metrocard every morning.

 

[rbt]

I think the biggest problem is the average wages, which includes the aforementioned janitors, plus over 300 people who make over $100,000 a year.

$100k for a 70+ hour work week with the crap shifts (they work nearly all stat holidays, take cash instead of vacation, etc.) seems reasonable.

It might be cheaper for the TTC to eliminate excessive overtime and hire staffers (these 300 do the job of about 450 regular staff), but it also might not be once benefits and overhead are considered.

 

[doady]

I don't think $27 is outrageous for TTC drivers, considering their dangerous and probably stressful job,

It's not dangerous... the only reason wages should be that high is because most people can't drive a bus.

 

[adma]

Maybe if Rob Ford became mayor, transit will be outsourced to whomever operates those double-decker tour buses, or the Hippos...

 

[W. K. Lis]

What if the TTC was run by a corporation...

...it could end up as what happened to Twin Cities Rapid Transit in 1948.

http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2008/05/history-lesson-demise-of-twin-cities.html

If I had shares in a corporation, I would want a return that is more than what I would get in a term deposit or savings bond.

Keep the TTC as part of the City of Toronto.