[kEiThZ]

Why? You’re suggesting skyrocketing housing prices are the government’s goal rather than an unintended result of crappy policy. How does a housing crisis benefit the government?

At what point in a decades long march of increasing home prices do we acknowledge that this isn't an "unintended result of crappy policy" and just the actual intent?

The government clearly wants to keep prices elevated. Even their supposed solutions to the Housing Crisis are usually ways to enable young people to pay more for a home. See FHSAs. They absolutely are not interested in actually bringing prices down.

The reality is that Boomers may whine about how their kids don't have enough opportunities, but they most certainly will not vote in a manner that helps their kids, if it even involves an ounce of sacrifice. And the Liberals know this. In economics, this is called revealed preferences, where the actual behaviour of people reveal their true desires, in spite of their language.

The Liberals are panicking on housing now for two reasons. First, they really believed the market would respond to the flood of immigrants and build more. Instead home starts are actually declining. They massively misunderstood the economics and business of homebuilding. Two, the Liberal brand is now trashed for basically every demographic but real estate owning Boomers. Trudeau could easily be last Liberal PM for at least a decade. Probably 15+ years. They know they have to at least give the appearance that they care. Hence the flurry of housing announcements.

 

[kEiThZ]

When my grandparents came to Canada in the 1960s via Australia they were skilled. My Grandmother was a factory worker and my Grandfather was a Master Electrician.

They actually wanted to come to Canada in 1958 however they were unable. At that time, they were only accepting refugees and immigrants with required skill sets.

In 1958, Canada did not need more electricians however in 1965 that changed and my Grandparents were given the option to come here.

We need something similar now. What is not helping is the Atlantic Pilot Project.

There is an Instagram account for an immigration lawyer who's greatest triumph is telling people about how Indians with no skills got visas! One particular video was about how someone with experience as a store clerk got a visa in Atlantic Canada because of the Atlantic Pilot Project.

The Atlantic Pilot Project is an easy way for people to get a visa in Canada. All they have to do is apply for work with a designated employer in the Maritimes

We're a country that needs unskilled labour. So is it a bad thing that we take in some unskilled people? Are you going to go pick produce on farms or scrub toilets at Tim's? We don't need more BAs to push paper. It's not even clear if we need a lot more tech or finance workers.

But because Canadians are only used to seeing immigrants are a source of skilled labour, we need to invent bypass schemes for unskilled labour that we pretend are temporary. It's kinda like what the US does with illegal immigration. They can't survive without those workers. But they need them to be undocumented to enable exploitation.

Now, I'd argue that Canada is over retailed and our waistlines and personal debt levels speak to that. So personally, I have zero issues if half the fast food joints in this country closed. But most people don't share my opinion. So if you want to be and to have a Tim's within 3 km of 90% of Canadians and serve them in 2 mins while their fat asses stay in a car, you will need lots of unskilled labour.

 

[Richard White]

We're a country that needs unskilled labour. So is it a bad thing that we take in some unskilled people? Are you going to go pick produce on farms or scrub toilets at Tim's? We don't need more BAs to push paper. It's not even clear if we need a lot more tech or finance workers.

But because Canadians are only used to seeing immigrants are a source of skilled labour, we need to invent bypass schemes for unskilled labour that we pretend are temporary. It's kinda like what the US does with illegal immigration. They can't survive without those workers. But they need them to be undocumented to enable exploitation.

Now, I'd argue that Canada is over retailed and our waistlines and personal debt levels speak to that. So personally, I have zero issues if half the fast food joints in this country closed. But most people don't share my opinion. So if you want to be and to have a Tim's within 3 km of 90% of Canadians and serve them in 2 mins while their fat asses stay in a car, you will need lots of unskilled labour.

Keith,

The point I was making was that they were promoting an easy way into Canada without first promoting the need for workers domestically.

There are plenty of Canadians who would move to east coast if the offer was right. If the Feds offered up tax breaks like they did in Northern Canada there would be no need for the Atlantic Immigration Program.

What they are doing instead is inviting every Raj, Singh and Kaur into Canada without any viable skills.

They need to focus on Canadians first and foremost. They should have to prove no other Canadian can do the job required before being allowed to hire an immigrant.

In the EU for example, you need an offer of employment from an EU employer to get a work visa. To get that work permit, the EU employer has to prove that no other EU citizen can reasonably do the job. They have to give EU citizens first priority over new immigrants.

What the Liberals are doing is opening the flood gates. They are essentially offering visa and work permits to any immigrant who wants work in Atlantic Canada. It's a path to enter Canada that doesn't require you to go to school, doesn't require any skills. All you have to do is work.

 

[wopchop]

In the EU for example, you need an offer of employment from an EU employer to get a work visa. To get that work permit, the EU employer has to prove that no other EU citizen can reasonably do the job. They have to give EU citizens first priority over new immigrants.

What the Liberals are doing is opening the flood gates. They are essentially offering visa and work permits to any immigrant who wants work in Atlantic Canada. It's a path to enter Canada that doesn't require you to go to school, doesn't require any skills. All you have to do is work.

In the Atlantic pathway program employers are hiring foreign workers and endorsing them, getting them temporary work permits. It is not a floodgate in the sense that anyone can pickup and start moving to the Maritimes.

The difference from that European working visa or a USA H1-B visa, is that they do not need
to show they cannot hire local for each application. What they do need to do is get designated by the federal government prior to joining the program and making any sponsorship offers. I am not sure if as part of getting designated if there are requirements to show labour shortage.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It keeps their base among the boomers wealthy.

The reality is that Boomers may whine

Lots of natter about Boomers. But plenty of my generation, in fact everyone I know from Gen-X owns their home, either outright or within a few years being mortgage free. In fact Gen-X is likely to inherit billions (not me, unfortunately) in the coming decades. So, I suppose it’s not just Boomers, but essentially anyone who owns property that benefits from government policy or ineptitude that holds prices high. But I don’t blame Boomers or any other group, we’re individuals, not blocks.

 

[afransen]

Political parties treat these groups as blocs. That is the only way they can target policies. It is clear it has been a strategy by Harper and the Trudeau to keep homeowners happy by inflating house prices. All while making noises about affordability, which is obviously contradictory as the only way to make housing more affordable is to destroy wealth of homeowners.

 

[kEiThZ]

If the Feds offered up tax breaks like they did in Northern Canada there would be no need for the Atlantic Immigration Program.

Have you looked up the population of Northern Canada? Those tax breaks aren't as attractive as you think.

Also, moving a Canadian from a high income, high productivity region to a low income, low productivity region isn't really a gain for the country or federal government. They are essentially creating a liability to fund with more equalization.

What they are doing instead is inviting every Raj, Singh and Kaur into Canada without any viable skills.

The problem isn't so much who they are letting in, so much as where we settle them. Raj, Singh and Kaur would be a lot more useful to Atlantic Canada than Ontario. Also, these people are trainable, if directed to the right programs. But the government doesn't really preference programs that address our skills gap and the visa policy actually advantages those who take generic programs.

 

[kEiThZ]

The difference from that European working visa or a USA H1-B visa, is that they do not need
to show they cannot hire local for each application. What they do need to do is get designated by the federal government prior to joining the program and making any sponsorship offers. I am not sure if as part of getting designated if there are requirements to show labour shortage.

Also, plenty of Americans actually hate the H-1B program. It was supposed to be a guest worker program and now it's become a pathway to residency.

In the US where postsecondary education costs a ton, foreign workers (including Canadians) coming in to suppress professional wages is particularly painful. Imagine you spend US$50k on an undergrad and then get only $70k to start because H-1Bs are happy to work for close to that. And this is on top of manufacturing jobs being outsourced to China and Mexico. Then people wonder why Trump got elected. We're heading the same way with younger generations in Canada.

 

[kEiThZ]

Lots of natter about Boomers. But plenty of my generation, in fact everyone I know from Gen-X owns their home, either outright or within a few years being mortgage free. In fact Gen-X is likely to inherit billions (not me, unfortunately) in the coming decades. So, I suppose it’s not just Boomers, but essentially anyone who owns property that benefits from government policy or ineptitude that holds prices high. But I don’t blame Boomers or any other group, we’re individuals, not blocks.

There's lots of Millennials that own property too. That's not really the point. Broadly, the group owning the majority of real estate in Canada is the Boomer cohort. So they're a stand in for the landed gentry in discussions.

But even then broadly, as a young Gen X who would consider moving up the property ladder, I don't mind a loss in home value. Losing $50k on my condo is just fine, if the townhouse I want goes down $100k. So really, it's only the people at the top of the property ladder who truly benefit from the pro-real estate policies of government.

 

[wopchop]

Also, plenty of Americans actually hate the H-1B program. It was supposed to be a guest worker program and now it's become a pathway to residency.

In the US where postsecondary education costs a ton, foreign workers (including Canadians) coming in to suppress professional wages is particularly painful. Imagine you spend US$50k on an undergrad and then get only $70k to start because H-1Bs are happy to work for close to that. And this is on top of manufacturing jobs being outsourced to China and Mexico. Then people wonder why Trump got elected. We're heading the same way with younger generations in Canada.

True - but it isn't so easy to get a H1-B. I think there are something like 400k people total at any one time that hold it.
Obviously there are some companies (Apple, Amazon, and big IT companies like Tata, Cognizant, Infosys) that employ huge numbers of people on the H1B visa.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Also, plenty of Americans actually hate the H-1B program. It was supposed to be a guest worker program and now it's become a pathway to residency.

In the US where postsecondary education costs a ton, foreign workers (including Canadians) coming in to suppress professional wages is particularly painful. Imagine you spend US$50k on an undergrad and then get only $70k to start because H-1Bs are happy to work for close to that. And this is on top of manufacturing jobs being outsourced to China and Mexico. Then people wonder why Trump got elected. We're heading the same way with younger generations in Canada.

It’s almost impossible for anyone to legally emigrate to the US without a prearranged job that provides a visa, very limited family sponsorship, and a green card lottery, the latter of which excludes most Latin American countries. Nevertheless, millions enter and presumably find work that Americans won’t do.

 

[kEiThZ]

The carbon tax is dead and Trudeau killed it. This was entirely predictable:

Saskatchewan threatens to withhold carbon fees on natural gas

Premier Scott Moe hopes to pressure Ottawa into dropping all levies on heating fuels with natural-gas plan

www.theglobeandmail.com

I'm no fan of Scott Moe, but is he really wrong here?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719044342579450103

All this for what? The Liberals are still likely to lose the next election anyway.

 

[DirectionNorth]

The carbon tax is dead and Trudeau killed it. This was entirely predictable:

Saskatchewan threatens to withhold carbon fees on natural gas

Premier Scott Moe hopes to pressure Ottawa into dropping all levies on heating fuels with natural-gas plan

www.theglobeandmail.com

I'm no fan of Scott Moe, but is he really wrong here?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719044342579450103

All this for what? The Liberals are still likely to lose the next election anyway.

Ugh. Classic Canadian policy - take a simple program with good results, then add a million means-tested, region-based, paperwork-creating exemptions until the whole thing has more holes than Swiss Cheese. Beyond infuriating.

 

[afransen]

The carbon tax was going to disappear in a few years anyway. Ditch to ditch while the world burns.

 

[kEiThZ]

The carbon tax was going to disappear in a few years anyway. Ditch to ditch while the world burns.

Maybe. But what a terrible way for it to go. Not on principle. But to fall to pandering by the very party that argued for so long that the policy stands on principle.

Also, how arrogant do you have to be to tell whole regions of the country, they'd get their share of pandering tax breaks if they elect more of your party? The LPC is going from annoying to contemptible these days.