[taal]

In that article they mention the "West End". Do they mean Mississauga? Etobicoke? Both?

I think Mississauga actually ... Peel to be exact (that's generally considered the WEST GTA office market) ... Etobicoke's office space is a write off anyway
In the sense that the vacany rates there are many basis points about the offices just across the 427 (well ... a bit farther east to the south ... those cool blue buildings (nortel) are in Toronto! ... most people don't know that )

Anyway there's some merit in the fact that that area may be sligtly slower to recover, but personally, I'm not sure I by the logic behind downtown Toronto. We'll have to wait and see but I think it'll be worse then they're predicting (the article) but possibly better then the worse case scenarios put out there.

If you stop and think about it - what was the vacancy rate before? 7-9% ... all those figures you here for Calgary and Toronto that are sub 4/5% don't include sublease space, so it's not really that good . Anyway, 5% more offices => 5% more vacancy forecasting no extra growth, or shrinkage. That would put is around 13-15% - lower for the vacancy rates, not bad at all still, actually good compared to a lot of other major North American markets. The key is if we'll see growth longer term ... match those tax rates to the 905!

 

[lordmandeep]

The Vacancy rate of 10% is quite good and if the economy rebounds well, the rate will likely go back down to like seven or so percent


All I know, it would be best if no office buildings get constructed for the next 3 years.

 

[taal]

The Vacancy rate of 10% is quite good and if the economy rebounds well, the rate will likely go back down to like seven or so percent


All I know, it would be best if no office buildings get constructed for the next 3 years.

This is something the market determines ... also, unlike residential construction, the office market in Toronto is extremely self regulating, if there's even a slight chance a building won't get leased it won't go up. More so in downtown where developers have learned lessons from the past.

The timing of 3 years is probably correct though.

 

[Marko]

I'm eager to see more office bulidings in the MCC area, ideally much higher than the current 18 stories or whatever that Sussex tops out at. It would take some time to get everything together and completion would be 2~3 years out even if the ball started rolling now - but I'd love to see the city make a concerted effort to say to RBC or TD or whoever has built these 400,000 sf campuses to think high rise within the MCC.

There are great plots of land available right along City Centre Drive / Hurontario / Burnhamthorpe that are better suited to office/hotel than they are for more condos.

 

[Observer Walt]

^ I think that will come in time, but not right away. There is still lower-cost land in Mississauga than the City Centre. The problem with new office development, in the City Centre, is that the City no longer is permitting surface parking. Any new parking goes underground, which would increase the construction cost by perhaps $20,000 per parking space. At a standard of four or five parking spaces per 1,000 sq. ft. of floor space, that cost quickly adds up. Meanwhile, in the Airport Corporate Centre or up Hurontario north of 403, you can still do surface parking.

I think it's good that the city sticks to its guns on this, but there is a consequence.

By the way Marko, I'm not sure if you named RBC and TD deliberately or if you just used random names as examples. Some people here may not know that both of these have major office facilities in Mississauga, but not in the City Centre. TD now has four office buildings at Tahoe Blvd, just off Eglinton, and RBC has a big building at 401 and Mississauga Road. Good illustrations of what you refer to!

Continuing slightly off topic (sorry), the TD complex will very shortly have a neighbour. The two new Research in Motion buildings at Tahoe Blvd. appear to be very nearly finished.

 

[taal]

While I agree this will happen it will be some time (quite possibly a lot of time) before you seeing anything like this ... if we even do.

The vacancy rate in MCC is actually one of higher ones in all of Peal region. If you look at the type of developments these corporations are going for (the ones mentioned above) you'll notice they're the campus like facilities ... they don't want to locate in tall office building wither underground parking.

 

[Marko]

By the way Marko, I'm not sure if you named RBC and TD deliberately or if you just used random names as examples. Some people here may not know that both of these have major office facilities in Mississauga, but not in the City Centre. TD now has four office buildings at Tahoe Blvd, just off Eglinton, and RBC has a big building at 401 and Mississauga Road. Good illustrations of what you refer to!

Continuing slightly off topic (sorry), the TD complex will very shortly have a neighbour. The two new Research in Motion buildings at Tahoe Blvd. appear to be very nearly finished.

I did choose RBC and TD specifically, as they are 2 of the more recent large scale office developments in town, along with RIM as mentioned.

I think there's a compromise that can be made in the MCC area with surface vs underground parking. Stacked garages can be built at grade (perhaps one level u/g) and basically comprise the inner core of podiums that are 4 or 5 stories tall. As long as retail is incorporated into the outer ground floor and perhaps 2nd floor, it could be clad to look like a regular building from 2nd floor and up.

This accomplished several things at once:
A) makes garages much cheaper since there is less excavation
B) creates street level storefronts
C) pushes the actual height of the building upwards
D) concentrates high employee levels near the MCC transit hub
E) puts more employees within walking distance of 15,000~ new condos

I have been working on a quasi-map of the proposed area I am discussing, but won't derail this thread any further. I'll post it in the MCC "main street" thread some time soon.

 

[Dan416]

I did choose RBC and TD specifically, as they are 2 of the more recent large scale office developments in town, along with RIM as mentioned.

I think there's a compromise that can be made in the MCC area with surface vs underground parking. Stacked garages can be built at grade (perhaps one level u/g) and basically comprise the inner core of podiums that are 4 or 5 stories tall. As long as retail is incorporated into the outer ground floor and perhaps 2nd floor, it could be clad to look like a regular building from 2nd floor and up.

This accomplished several things at once:
A) makes garages much cheaper since there is less excavation
B) creates street level storefronts
C) pushes the actual height of the building upwards
D) concentrates high employee levels near the MCC transit hub
E) puts more employees within walking distance of 15,000~ new condos

I have been working on a quasi-map of the proposed area I am discussing, but won't derail this thread any further. I'll post it in the MCC "main street" thread some time soon.

I think that would work fine in MCC as a temporary measure. Parking above-grade will make the buildings taller and that makes me happy

 

[MatrixElement]

New LED Colours, September 16

Some pictures from the evening of September 16, showing new colours such as red and green, in addition to the blue seen earlier. This was the first time I'd gone right up to the base of the building at night with the LEDs on. The podium is quite stunning in person. My nighttime photography isn't great and I found the red in particular didn't come out nearly as bright as in person, but hey no one else is taking pictures.

From Union Station at York and Front:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3928099862/in/set-72157622392773474
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3928099970/in/set-72157622392773474

From Wellington and Simcoe by Roy Thomson Hall:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3927318385/in/set-72157622392773474
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3927318677/in/set-72157622392773474

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3928101200/in/set-72157622392773474
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3928101360/in/set-72157622392773474

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41002894@N07/3928102010/in/set-72157622392773474

 

[4grand]

I like the colours, It just look kind of awkward.

Only the pinnacle part is lit up, and it just seems unbalanced.

Still, the colours are nice, and the strips up the side are a nice touch.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Fantastic! I especially like how the white block above the entrance has also been included in the show!

 

[Nebakenezer]

Wow, thats pretty cool.. definately perks up the area at night.

 

[khris]

Wow thanks for the photos. I wish the LED lighting was more noticeable in the vertical portion. With all the lights on the interior, they're not that noticeable. Unless this is just in photos, and in person they're brighter?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I froze my cahona's off two nights ago cycling down there. The lighting is indeed brighter in person and I suspect that once interior construction is done and when blinds, sun shades or whatever are up in the windows it will be even more dramatic.

I'd love to see a few more LED colour installations around town, especially on condo rooftops, where appropriate. I'm having a vision of a soft blue LED installation atop Casa for evening illumination instead of another boring white lit rooftop.

Matrix, those are great shots for a difficult subject to shoot, well done!

 

[Johnzz]

I'd love to see a few more LED colour installations around town

I believe Aura plans on something similar.