lenaitch
Senior Member
Developers would say they are just responding to the market that a kitchen is not a priority because so many either eat out or use delivery apps.
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- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
Can we get back to road safety and discuss condos in the appropriate thread(s) please.
dkt
New Member
To be fair, I love the plentiful small independent grocery stores on that stretch of the Danforth. You don't have to line Galen Weston's pockets *every* time you shop. I do get your point about the decline though. Closest Sobeys-owned store is near Broadview perhaps?
Also sort of offtopic but Google Maps has been bugged and calling all of Coxwell "Lower Coxwell" for some time now. Weird that this mistake has been here this long
Northern Light
Superstar
I totally agree. That said, Toronto is not a butcher-shop, green grocer, fish monger, bakery centric kind of place.
At least not yet.
I'm a foodie, and I am lucky that when the mood strikes me, I can afford to indulge at the Five Thieves of Rosedale; or Cumbraes on Bayview, yet even I do that a handful of times each year.
They really aren't cost competitive w/the big chains for the most part, and of course, don't sell the sundry supplies from TP to Laundry Soap that most people need and want to get in a one, or two-stop shop.
So for most people, relative ease of access to chain stores matters. I actually favour limiting formula-retail (chains) and I also favour limiting store size. I think competition is great.
But at the same time, we're very far from that being a viable path to a '15M city')
No, there's a Sobeys on Danforth just west of Main that would be closer, its not in great shape, its a 'B' store. But that's mostly because its going to be redeveloped in the next few years.
Still if you're centred at say Woodbine/Mortimer, or Coxwell/Mortimer in this area, your selection of full service grocery stores is about what I showed.
That's more than a 15M walk for most; and then lets add, the Valu-Mart is also a B store at best. (and also slated for redevelopment)
nfitz
Superstar
If you are Woodbine and Mortimer, you are 10 minutes from that Value-Mart - and 10 minutes to the Shoppers Drug Mart at Woodbine and O'Connor, which has a good food selection. Also at that intersection you have latin supermarket right at the intersection - and that bakery kitty-corner. And there's Old's Cool General Store about 7 minutes east along Lumsden (Mortimer east of Woodbine).
I haven't been in them, but there's two convenience stores (and a Beer Store) one block north as well.
The Value Mart is probably being redeveloped, but the owner is Weston, and the redevelopment includes a new grocery store.
At Coxwell and Mortimer there are those two convenience stores at Sammon and Monarch Park; one says it has fruit and vegetables on their sign - though I keep driving past, and haven't been in. There's also the convenience store a block south, at Sammon and Coxwell, and another on Sammon a block east. 10 minutes south is the new Shoppers Drug Mart, with a good food section. And 10 minutes to the north, just before O'Connor, is that strip of stores, where Wayne's Supermarket is - and two more convenience stores, along with numerous restaurants, etc.
Could it be better - sure. But is there a heck of a lot within 10 minutes (personally I find 15 minutes a bit far ... I don't like to go more than 5 minutes for staples, like milk).
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm well aware of what's in the community. I think you're losing the point here.
It was simply an illustration of the concept of the 15-minute city, and I used chain supermarkets as one obvious marker for that.
Fifteen minutes in the concept is the maximum, walking distance required for most of life's necessities, not the average or ideal, and not for some, but most.
Price point is also a factor, and as such the Shopper's at Woodbine/O'Connor is no place to be buying grocery, as one pays a significant premium for doing so.
Sure, this area I picked is better than some; that's hardly good news, it simply means some areas are well and truly abysmal and some vast distance from meeting that ideal.
In this section of East York, in grocery, perhaps 2 additional chain supermarkets, well placed, would go some considerable distance to meeting that standard.
Of course, the goal isn't merely one of proximity, its the pleasantness of the walk, in a range of weather conditions too.
I've walked Woodbine plenty, as example, and would describe it as unpleasant, very few street tree trees, minimal other landscaping, no seating for those who need that, largely bereft of nice architecture, not much by way of publicly accessible washrooms etc etc.
So the goal of the 15M City would include not only more retail, but redesigned roads making the thought of walking to the store, library, bus stop etc an appealing one.
nfitz
Superstar
More would be good - but there's also no end of stuff along Danforth. And No Thrills down on Coxwell. Near the subway there is the Foodland at Pape - both of which are very transit accessible.
I really don't think one can expect large cheap grocery stores within a 15-minute walk. A good small souped-up convenience store should be the goal. Like the Yes Food Fair and Woodbine and Gerrard. Or the BJ Supermarket on Gerrard just west of Coxwell. Neither are particularly expensive, and between the two, I can eat pretty much anything
(LOL, and have to walk past the No Thrills to get to BJ's - my gosh, I hate that No Thrills ... even if the floors are no longer collapsing, and the fridges are no longer so old that the milk curdles before the expiry date).
crs1026
Superstar
^The question will be whether the City is able to retain enough mixed-use space in whatever is built as Danforth (and other similar streets) densify.
It seems that developers often want to use ground floors of mid size buildings as amenity space, so instead of a block of small stores we could see the replacement building simply being a condo lobby and windows into space accessible only by residents of that building.
Gentrification does not only happen to residential space - we could see much of the charm and diversity of the Danforth getting pushed out.as commercial rents go up and landlords try to attract fewer tenants using larger amounts of space.
One new larger store every three blocks is not a fair exchange for the current mixture of small businesses and stores. To design walkable 15 minute cities, the space for cafes, specialty shops, etc needs to be retained.
- Paul
It seems that developers often want to use ground floors of mid size buildings as amenity space, so instead of a block of small stores we could see the replacement building simply being a condo lobby and windows into space accessible only by residents of that building.
Gentrification does not only happen to residential space - we could see much of the charm and diversity of the Danforth getting pushed out.as commercial rents go up and landlords try to attract fewer tenants using larger amounts of space.
One new larger store every three blocks is not a fair exchange for the current mixture of small businesses and stores. To design walkable 15 minute cities, the space for cafes, specialty shops, etc needs to be retained.
- Paul
W. K. Lis
Superstar
One problem is that many of the buildings are owned by corporations. They tend to lease the stores out to other corporations or franchises. Worse is that the leases they want are high.
Wonder when Ed Mirvish opened his little store at Bloor & Markham, how high was the lease in comparison with other stores along that block or two, or if he owned the building in the beginning? Parking lot? Not needed when there were streetcars on Bloor and on Bathurst.
From link.
Wonder when Ed Mirvish opened his little store at Bloor & Markham, how high was the lease in comparison with other stores along that block or two, or if he owned the building in the beginning? Parking lot? Not needed when there were streetcars on Bloor and on Bathurst.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
afransen
Senior Member
I actually walk to my dentist, vet, bank branch (though I rarely need to go), and there is a grocery store (Metro) and pharmacy, Canada Post pickup/drop-off, half a dozen restaurants, bike shop, etc. within a 2-3 minute walk from my house. And yet I doubt many would describe my neighbourhood as particularly walkable.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I'll link it here.
New York State establishes scramble crosswalks outside schools
What do you think?
New York State establishes scramble crosswalks outside schools
What do you think?
11th
Senior Member
^ How is it going to work without traffic signals?
lenaitch
Senior Member
If you read down into the text of the Bill, it talks about pedestrian and vehicle control signals, so I'm assuming it wants to empower an 'all vehicle stop/all pedestrian walk' sequence. Barrie has one downtown and I think London does (or did). Didn't they try this at Yonge and Dundas as well?
11th
Senior Member
Looks like a proper implementation of scramble crossing, where there is complete separation of pedestrain and vehicular phases - unlike the one we have at Yonge and Dundas (although turns are prohibited).