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then counteract it with land use policy, The highway isn't the problem, it's crappy land use policy.

The 407 corridor was never a comprehensive land use plan or any real attempt at limiting outward growth of the GTA. It was a corridor a few hundred metres wide reserved for utilities specifically with the anticipation of rapid urban development in mind. When it was instituted in the 1970's sprawl was still considered "good" in a lot of circles, unlike today.

This does not "blow through" the greenbelt. The greenbelt policy very specifically has a part allowing for infrastructure to cross over the belt, for specific situations like this one. It services specific white belt and urban area lands designed for development.

These areas are going to be developed at a very dense level, not the 1960's-1990's sprawl we typically think of. Take a look at North Oakville and the greenfield densities going up there. 80 people and jobs a hectare is a high target to achieve.


At the end of the day as well, 80% of trips in the GTA are made by automobile, and that isn't going to change. It will start to drop, but as 100,000 people a year are added, you are probably still going to see 30,000 new cars in the GTA. Either we can let the region drown in that traffic in the name of "environmental sustainability", or you can service it in some manner. Yea, induced demand, yada yada yada, but those trips aren't going to 100% convert to transit trips no matter how hard we try. We need to try our damnest, but it doesn't make sense to ban new auto capacity projects either.

I saw a recent fact that I found very interesting - Canada already actually surpasses France on transit ridership outside of Paris, by a fairly significant margin. It's not like Canada is some auto reliant hellscape, we can always improve, but outside of the densest of the dense Asian cities, cars are an integral part of daily life anywhere in the globe. And that isn't going to change.
 
Don't think things will stay the same through the decades. From link.

hwy401-4_lg.jpg

Highway 401 at Highway 27 (now 427) in 1954. The Richview Sideroad (today's Eglinton Avenue) passes across the right corner of this photo.
 
Ok ill send an email to the Spaniards that own it asking them to please lower the cost.

Hmm they just sent a letter back that only says "Vete a la mierda completamente"
Since the Spaniards only own about 43% I thought it best to confirm with the Canada Pension Plan (40%) and SNC Lavalin (~17%)....they said pretty much the same in both official languages. ;)
 
People were saying much the same when the 407 arrived on the scene; finally we can get up to Richmond Hill without having to pass through Toronto.............

How did that work out? It didn't. The sprawl followed, and what was once a bypass became another highway surrounded by growing City.

South York Region was already quite suburbanized by the time the 407 was built so it was never a true bypass.
 
South York Region was already quite suburbanized by the time the 407 was built so it was never a true bypass.

To an extent this is true. Though, for every pocket of development I could show you cornfields next to that corridor on the north side, for a substantial chunk of it; keep in mind we have to compare to the EA/approval date, more than the construction date.
 
The federal gasoline tax has not been adjusted for inflation since 1995 (10¢ a litre). The provincial gasoline tax has not been adjusted for inflation since 1992 (14.7¢ a litre). Highway maintenance is supposed to come from that tax.

Meanwhile, fuel economy on cars has increased. There are electric cars that don't use petroleum fuel from the pumps. So even the HST on petroleum fuels is not a source of revenue for new highways.

The new expressways should be tolled to help pay for them. Not from general revenue.
 
The federal gasoline tax has not been adjusted for inflation since 1995 (10¢ a litre). The provincial gasoline tax has not been adjusted for inflation since 1992 (14.7¢ a litre). Highway maintenance is supposed to come from that tax.

Meanwhile, fuel economy on cars has increased. There are electric cars that don't use petroleum fuel from the pumps. So even the HST on petroleum fuels is not a source of revenue for new highways.

The new expressways should be tolled to help pay for them. Not from general revenue.

Just to add to this, those respective taxes, adjusted for infation, would be 15.23c per L and 23.3c per L.

So collectively, an extra 13.5c per L.
 
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Just to add to this, those respective taxes, adjusted for infation, would be 15.23c per L and 23.3c per L.

So collectively, an extra 13.5c per L.
we saw hst added about 10 years ago though, that was a 13% increase. Plus we did have the carbon tax apply for a bit. It's not like gasoline taxation hasn't increased since 1992.
 
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we saw hst added about 10 years ago though, that was a 13% increase. Plus we did have the carbon tax apply for a bit. It's not like gasoline taxation hasn't increased since 1992.

No there was no such thing. The GST of 7% already applied to Gas at the time, the merged HST only added 8%. The federal portion has since been lowered by 2 points. Making the sales tax change a net 6% increase in the price of gas.

Let's keep this factual.

Let's also take a look at where Canada's price of gas is compared with the world writ large.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/gas-prices/#20183:United-States:USD:g


Now let's look at Canada's gas taxes vs those of other countries
tdm17_02.gif

What we find is Canada has among the lowest retail prices of gasoline in the developed world AND among the lowest gas taxes as well.
 
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I am unsure have 100s of thousands car stuck in traffic is environmentally sustainable either.

Its not. But another highway is going to make at best no difference at all and potentially may make the problem worse.

We need a better solution.
 
No there was no such thing. The GST of 7% already applied to Gas at the time, the merged HST only added 8%. The federal portion has since been lowered by 2 points. Making the sales tax changed a net 6% increase in the price of gas.

Let's keep this factual.

Let's also take a look at where Canada's price of gas is compared with the world writ large.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/gas-prices/#20183:United-States:USD:g


Now let's look at Canada's gas taxes vs those of other countries
tdm17_02.gif

What we find is Canada has among the lowest retail prices of gasoline in the developed world AND among the lowest gas taxes as well.

So the 6% increase overall would equal about an extra 7 cents.. and the Carbon Tax added an estimated 4.5 cents a litre.. Bam, that's your missing 13.5 cents.

Of course our lord and saviour Doug just dropped it again, but I expect it will increase again shortly once the federal tax kicks in.

Canada's gas prices are low by global standards, you are correct. But that's not the same thing as arguing that Canada's gas taxes have not increased since 1992.
 

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