Transportfan
Senior Member
I didn't think there was enough room through Ajax either, unless there's space outside the noise walls.
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- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
I didn't think there was enough room through Ajax either, unless there's space outside the noise walls.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
If it's used solely as an alternative to the I-90, then there shouldn't be any interchange between Windsor and Fort Erie (but there would be plenty of rest stops along the way). For those who want to travel quickly on Highway 3, it can be upgraded, but not as a freeway, unlike the I-90 alternative.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
^ are you suggesting an american version of the Berlinka? In the 1930's the Nazi's wanted an extraterritorial freeway link from Berlin to Königsberg, running through polish territory. It was a primary reason in their "justification" of invading Poland in 1939. They ended up building a good chunk of it, some of which is still in use today. You can trace most of the route, even the unbuilt parts, through the woods of Poland even today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlinka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlinka
muller877
Senior Member
It's a 50 km route (most of which would be new highway). Probably the longest since the 403 was opened in the 80's around Brantford.
Airport rd (Veterans Memorial Parkway) can be made into an expressway. From there it would continue North parallel to Clarke. It would then follow the back lot line between Medway and Sunningdale (which already has subdivisions encroaching it). Without destroying environmentally sensitive land it could meet the 402 around Lobo.
Beyond the EA approval they would need approval from the First Nations (there are 1 or 2 reservations near Delaware). You are also dealing with multiple regions here (London vs Middlesex vs Strathroy)
All of this to relieve the 402 which is not busy to begin with. Plus destroying good farmland
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The above would not be to relieve the 402 but rather the busy 401 from the 402 to 403 interchanges. It would also provide freeway access to northern Londoners as opposed to the hell that they have to {and increasingly aren't} contend with trying to get to the 401.
For northern Londoners it's the equivalent of having downtown Torontonians not being able to take the Gardiner to Hamilton but rather having to go all the way up Yonge to the 401 and then taking it and the 427 to QEW to try to get to Hamilton. From that perspective just taking Lakeshore from downtown to the QEW to Mississuaga seems far more appealing.
For northern Londoners it's the equivalent of having downtown Torontonians not being able to take the Gardiner to Hamilton but rather having to go all the way up Yonge to the 401 and then taking it and the 427 to QEW to try to get to Hamilton. From that perspective just taking Lakeshore from downtown to the QEW to Mississuaga seems far more appealing.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
It's a little thing called political clout.
A northern route would have come too close to tony North London and more importantly the Labatt family home and the Labatts cashed in all their political chips to ensure that didn't happen and hence you have the 402 route you have today.
In fact the original 401 was not suppose to take it's current route thru London either. When the 401 was built in the 60s, it was well south of London city boundaries with absolutely no urban development within 5 km of the route. The original proposal was the 401 being south of London but far closer to the city by about 3-4 km closer to Commissioners Road. St.Thomas didn't like that idea and their politicians "convinced" QP that the route should be roughly the same distance between the 2 which is why it is where it is.........near dead centre between the 2. The route was originally suppose to be closer to London's southern boundary at the time, be useful for London as a future commuter route, and head to Woodstock's current location running to the current 403 interchange and then head north-east to Kitchener as it currently does but run north of Ingersol and not south of it.
Like Toronto's experience with the Bloor extension to STC, politics often get in the way of sound transportation planning.
muller877
Senior Member
If you are near Oxford you go Oxford to Highbury and its a 15 minute drive...20-25 at rush hour. Further North you take Fanshawe, Sunningdale or Medway to Clarke/Veterans and its still about 25 minutes in rush (20 min normal)
We are talking 60-80 km/hr 4 lane roads with no parking...and not Toronto traffic. Flows pretty good even during rush hour. Roads that are similar to Erin Mills Parkway...not Yonge.
A freeway would reduce the burden on local roads and may get you there 5 minutes faster. Not worth the investment. What would be worth the investment is to slowly create more interchanges on Veterans (similar to what Guelph did on the Hanlon).
Tourists always take Wellington which is insane and not what locals do (getting downtown is a pain but a ring road will not solve that problem)
JasonParis
Moderator
I'm not generally big on highway expansions, but if you ever take the QEW on any weekend, you might think otherwise. GO and VIA can help here too, but maybe never enough.
44 North
Senior Member
Probably something like this in Prov planning maps from the 60s. St Thomas is really interesting in what they did with 3/St Thomas Expwy. Not common for cities of that size to build real deal expressways, however short they are. But I wouldn't see any need for a 400-series south of 401/403 in the next millennium. Growth there seems fairly stable, and people probably genuinely like the way things are.
darth_freeman
Active Member
The only really big improvement in the Niagara region scheduled is the twinning of the Garden City Skyway. The existing deck only has about 10 years of service life yet, so the twinning will probably start within the next 5 years. This will add a truck climbing lane in each direction, which will help those peak weekend traffic flows a little bit.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
They are planning to widen the QEW from the Red Hill to the 406 in the nearish term too I believe. Adding an HOV, I believe.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Have there been any proposals or plans to redesign the 404/DVP/401 interchange to "add more capacity"? If not, what would a redesign be (any close examples)?
nfitz
Superstar
No.
Toffy
Active Member
I'm not sure if there have been any proposals, but the MTO has very recently completed thorough rehabilitations of the interchange's bridges. Given that I would say even if there are any proposals they are likely a minimum of a couple decades out of comming to fruition.
timio
Active Member
This would probably be better than what's there today:
