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innsertnamehere said:
Just 407, there is going to be a slight realignment of the 401 to fit the 407 ramps between the rail tracks though, so that is probably what you are seeing. No widening of the 401.
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Gotcha, thanks. Yeah, I always figured that any expansion of the 401 was going to need to be unidirectional in that location, because the rail tracks on the south side precludes an evenly distributed expansion. I just hope that the interchange takes the future expansion into account, because I believe that expansion to Brock St is in the relatively near future (as far as highway projects go).
 
Timelapse drive into downtown Toronto, showing the skyline from the Gardiner Expressway

[video=youtube;vY7OdCtp8CQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7OdCtp8CQ[/video]

Was a decision ever made weather or not to tear it down? I heard a major refit was proposed.
 
Haljackey said:
Was a decision ever made weather or not to tear it down? I heard a major refit was proposed.
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Renos are now going to happen from the west working east to give them time to decide what to do with the section west of Jarvis. Regardless of what happens to the east end, the majority of the Gardiner will remain.
 
They should convert the 401/Allen Rd interchange into a parclo. They should take down the flyover ramps and put traffic lights. And also takedown the access to 401 express lanes. Allen Road will never be extended to Gardiner, so might as well do it.
 
I noticed this past weekend they are doing massive work at the 400 - 11 split, including a new/replacement bridge. Does anyone know what the full plan is?
 
Kitsune said:
I noticed this past weekend they are doing massive work at the 400 - 11 split, including a new/replacement bridge. Does anyone know what the full plan is?
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If it is what I think it is...
Currently Highway 11 exits on the left but continues on the right and 400 "exits" on the right but continues on the left. So what I hope they're doing is switching it around, by "untangling it", so that Highway 11 will exit on the right.
I don't know this for sure, I'm just speculating.
It makes more sense that way.
 
mtomo said:
If it is what I think it is...
Currently Highway 11 exits on the left but continues on the right and 400 "exits" on the right but continues on the left. So what I hope they're doing is switching it around, by "untangling it", so that Highway 11 will exit on the right.
I don't know this for sure, I'm just speculating.
It makes more sense that way.
Click to expand...

That would certainly make sense. I found that weird too when I've driven through there. Then again, the 400 was originally intended as a bypass for Highway 11 (much in the way that the 401 was a bypass for Highway 2), so it made sense at the time to have the 400 simply become 11.

My long-term hope though is to see the 404 extended around the east side of Lake Simcoe and continue north as Highway 11, which would have the 400-11 interchange reconfiguration make even more sense.
 
^ having the 404 run up to the 12/169 split is all that is really necessary, as well as returning 169 back to Provincial ownership. (along with a bunch of other highways such as 48 between 12 and 35) There isn't really a viable way through Orillia that would allow for a 404/412 connection to 11, so it would have to take the 169 route which is way too low traffic. Cottage traffic could be fairly easily fixed with an 8+2 HOV lane 400 to the 11 split, a 6 lane highway 11 to Orillia, and a rebuilt to 400 series standards 4 lane highway 11 to Gravenhurst. Maybe rename it the 411 at that point as well. (though there are still some at grade intersections further along 11, it is still good enough to have a 400 designation IMO) A lot of the bridges along 11 are seriously falling apart so I wouldn't be surprised if we see the 11 upgrading start in the next couple of years anyways.

also, the reason the 400 currently runs directly into 11 instead of through to the 400 is that back in the 1970's when 11 was RIROed the traffic was much higher going up 11 rather than 69, especially to Orillia. The traffic on 69 was very light back then, so it just didn't make sense to have the end of the 400 end by pointing up 69 instead of pointing up 11.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
^ having the 404 run up to the 12/169 split is all that is really necessary, as well as returning 169 back to Provincial ownership. (along with a bunch of other highways such as 48 between 12 and 35) There isn't really a viable way through Orillia that would allow for a 404/412 connection to 11, so it would have to take the 169 route which is way too low traffic. Cottage traffic could be fairly easily fixed with an 8+2 HOV lane 400 to the 11 split, a 6 lane highway 11 to Orillia, and a rebuilt to 400 series standards 4 lane highway 11 to Gravenhurst. Maybe rename it the 411 at that point as well. (though there are still some at grade intersections further along 11, it is still good enough to have a 400 designation IMO) A lot of the bridges along 11 are seriously falling apart so I wouldn't be surprised if we see the 11 upgrading start in the next couple of years anyways.

also, the reason the 400 currently runs directly into 11 instead of through to the 400 is that back in the 1970's when 11 was RIROed the traffic was much higher going up 11 rather than 69, especially to Orillia. The traffic on 69 was very light back then, so it just didn't make sense to have the end of the 400 end by pointing up 69 instead of pointing up 11.
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Rebuilding the Highway 11 90km/h section could be difficult, because if I recall correctly there are quite a few houses along that stretch. I'd much rather see that stretch bypassed than a lot of money spent into upgrading it, because that could prove very difficult. I figure that having the 404 meet it in Severn Bridge would minimize the amount of existing Highway 11 that would need to be upgraded.

And I think that the argument that "the 169 has way too low of a traffic volume to justify a 4 lane highway" isn't necessarily true. As you pointed out, the reason the end of the 400 pointed up 11 instead of 69 is because 69 had a very low traffic volume. But after 69 was twinned and renamed 400, the traffic patterns at that split shifted. I would think that for a lot of GTA residents, going up the 404 and connecting to 11 would be a lot easier than going up the 400.
 
That's what I meant for the 11 upgrades, build the highway that was planned in the EA done for highway 11 upgrades (which included large bypasses of the existing 11), with the exception of ending the 6 lane portion at Orillia.

coming from someone who uses 12/169 to get to cottage country, I see no need for the 404/412 to go past the 169 split. 169 is busy, but nowhere near the need of twinning. Maybe a Washago bypass and some passing lanes, but that is it.
 
innsertnamehere said:
That's what I meant for the 11 upgrades, build the highway that was planned in the EA done for highway 11 upgrades (which included large bypasses of the existing 11), with the exception of ending the 6 lane portion at Orillia.
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I haven't seen the EA, but I'd definitely be interesting in reading it. Do you happen to have a link?

innsertnamehere said:
coming from someone who uses 12/169 to get to cottage country, I see no need for the 404/412 to go past the 169 split. 169 is busy, but nowhere near the need of twinning. Maybe a Washago bypass and some passing lanes, but that is it.
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But my point is that it isn't busy now because the majority of people are using the 400 to get to 11. If the 404 is extended up to meet 11, I would venture to say that a substantial number of people would switch from using the 400 to get north, and use the 404 instead.

Right now if there's an accident between Toronto and Barrie on the 400, by and large traffic is screwed, because there's no real alternative. If the 404 is extended to meet 11, it will provide a 400-series alternative from Cottage Country all the way to the 401.

Doing this would also all for a renumbering that would restore some of the historical numbering: Highway 11 south of North Bay, Highway 404, and the DVP can be renumbered Highway 411, which would restore some of the "historical" Highway 11 route, and would also fit with the Province's new standard of numbering 400 series highways after the original route that they replaced (427, 417, etc). People already identify 417 and 17 as a continuation of the same highway. The linking of the 404 and 11 renumbered as 411 would create the same continuity between it and the section of 11 north of North Bay.
 
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