innsertnamehere
Superstar
absolutely!! i would much, much prefer that!
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- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
Naturally a 100% cost recovery won't happen, but I did say some of the construction costs back.
And again, this isn't a "this should be a top priority" project. If anything, the western leg of the highway should happen well before the eastern leg.
Why is it an either-or? HSR would likely be federal dollars, whereas this would be provincial.
Translude15
Frank the Tank
I agree with the sentiments voiced re low HOV enforcement on 404--I have never seen anybody pulled on that stretch despite taking 404 quite often. Appr 6 years ago I have been using 403 HOV lane for commuting (sharing a ride with my wife) and almost every single day there was a police patrol cruiser (often hidden) checking HOV compliance. I do not know why they don't patrol 404 as often. One possibility is that the HOV on 404 has a high compliance rate and does not require any additional enforcement. Maybe HOV is just reaching its capacity there? Those single drivers you are noticing from time to time might not be driving alone after all... I often take our 4 yr old and he is almost invisible in his booster seat from outside. I recall one very upset driver started to flash high beam at me, then he left the HOV, took the adjacent left lane, drove next to me, and started yelling some profanities! After I pointed to our son in his child booster, he was very surprised and apologetic, to the point of almost hitting a vehicle in front of him.
The 403 had quite a generous median before HOV lanes were constructed almost 10 years ago. When the HOV lanes were constructed there was enough room to include space for OPP cruisers at certain points along the route, especially underpasses. The OPP must make a killing on this highway with the amount of ticketing I see on a consistent basis. Morning, noon, and night, those police lights are always flashing.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of the GTA west corridor should not happen. There are only a few highway upgrades to my mind in SW ONT which are necessary:
-Limited Access bypass of Highway 7 from Conestoga Parkway to Breslau
-Expansion of existing highway 7 from 2 to 4 lanes.
-Upgrade of Hanlon Parkway to Limited Access Highway
-Upgrade of Highway 6 between 401 and QEW to Limited access Highway with Morriston Bypass
-Expansion of Highway 7/8 at-grade with Shakespeare and Stratford Bypasses
-Upgrade and extension of Veterans' Memorial Parkway (London) to Limited Access Highway from 401 to Sunningdale Road
I think it would be reasonable to assume that both Quebec and Ontario would be footing a portion of the cost of a HSR corridor.
Basshats
Active Member
We must be driving among different Americans because every time I drive the interstates I am always pleased with how much better people are at driving on the right and passing on the left. I am also far more likely to see cars in the left lane move over for faster vehicles, even if they are already at or over the speed limit. IMO, Ontarians, especially on the 401, are among the worst in the world at hogging the passing lanes unnecessarily.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
the 401 has problems as it has too much volume to all travel in a single lane except to pass. a faster driver would turn out to pass and never be able to re-enter the right lane. the 3 lane portions have no excuse, however.
I would rather see most of the GTA West corridor happen as opposed to the widening of the 401. Why? Because the 401 isn't actually the most convenient route to access any of the GTA West communities (except Milton). It just happens to be the fastest route to them, despite everything else. Expanding a route that isn't really the most convenient route isn't a good use of money. You can accomplish the same goal by building a parallel corridor that is actually more in line where people want to go. IMO, in general, building a parallel corridor is a better option than expanding the capacity on an existing corridor, unless the parallel corridor is prohibitively expensive (which in this case, it isn't).
Portions of it yes, but I would think the vast majority of it would be funded by the Feds. I would think it would be mainly the urban portions that would be covered partly by the Province, because they would be used for GO as well.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I prefer widenings, as they allow for less ecological disruption. for example, they are considering either extending the 427 to barrie or widening the 400, and to me it is a no brainer to widen it as doesn't rip another unpassable barrier for animals through half the province.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I am not sure if I follow.
Bridge and Building Codes have factors of safety (overdesigned) that are determined by scientists and engineers who understand probabilities, member behaviour, loading, etc. to come up with a consistant factors safety. The difference is that for highway design, politicians add their own arbitrary factor of safety.
Are you suggesting that politicians should add a couple of tonnes of load to the Bridge Code designs, or add a few extra kPa of loading on buildings, just to show that they care about safety.
I guess it's just a matter of where you place your priorities. While I do certainly understand and sympathize with the environmental argument, I think that either way you're going to have negative effects. To me, it's more economically advantageous, as well as in the sense of convenience, to build a parallel route as opposed to widening an existing one.
But of course, if that route is going through an extremely environmentally sensitive area like the Mid Peninsula Highway would, then the environmental factor needs to weigh in more heavily.
When it comes to the West GTA Corridor specifically, there are several quarries (some of which are abandoned I believe) that are right in the middle of the escarpment, and could be used as the "cut through point", in order to minimize environmental impacts.
spider
Senior Member
The statement referred to the America's not the Americans leaving me to assume the comparison was between all of North America and Europe. Just guessing.
MisterF
Senior Member
No that's not the same logic at all. And you didn't answer my questions. What makes Ontario so unique that we can't raise our speed limits while everywhere else can?
Mulder
Active Member
I never said they can't.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The Kitchener Guelph connection is a mess and desperately needs to be at a minimum a 4 lane freeway. HWY 7/8 should be twinned all the way to Stratford. An ideal situation and one that eventually has to come to fruition is to build a Sarnia/London/Stratford/Kitchener freeway.
The 402 would split at Strathroy with the new section running just north of London to Stratford/Kitchener. Not only would it divert a very significant amount of traffic off the London/Woodstock 401 stretch which is incredibly busy and carries massive amounts of truck transport but would offer commuters a better route to London from the north and west.
What many in the GTA don't realize is that the fastest growing area of London is the north end and that huge population increasing is not using the 401 to get to Kitchener or Toronto. The 401 only hits the extreme south end of the city and seeing London has no expressways getting there in London traffic is simply too time consuming and many are now taking the northern route of HWY#4 to Lucan/Stratford. It is an easier drive and in rush hour considerably faster.
The 402 was never planned as hooking up with the 401 until politics got in the way. It was originally suppose to cross the north end and head west to hook up with, at the time, the planned 403 at Woodstock.
The 402 would split at Strathroy with the new section running just north of London to Stratford/Kitchener. Not only would it divert a very significant amount of traffic off the London/Woodstock 401 stretch which is incredibly busy and carries massive amounts of truck transport but would offer commuters a better route to London from the north and west.
What many in the GTA don't realize is that the fastest growing area of London is the north end and that huge population increasing is not using the 401 to get to Kitchener or Toronto. The 401 only hits the extreme south end of the city and seeing London has no expressways getting there in London traffic is simply too time consuming and many are now taking the northern route of HWY#4 to Lucan/Stratford. It is an easier drive and in rush hour considerably faster.
The 402 was never planned as hooking up with the 401 until politics got in the way. It was originally suppose to cross the north end and head west to hook up with, at the time, the planned 403 at Woodstock.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
There is no doubt that improvements need to occur on Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph, however, building a dual carriageway fully grade separated with interchanges for the entire length is overkill. Bypass the urban sections if need be, but expand highway as a 4 lane road in its current ROW.
The current plan for the westward extension of 7/8 to strikes this kind of balance with 4 lanes and a centre-left buffer as the official plan from New Hamburg to Stratford.