[dforthandbview]

Or maybe it's just a job promotion and nothing else.

 

[CowboyLogic]

Right off the bat, let me just say that I'm not arguing that Ford isn't homophobic. I've just never previously seen any reason to label him as such. I don't know what lies in the man's heart.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=186617
http://www.cartt.ca/news/14891/Radi...oadcast-on-CFRB-ruled-homophobic-by-CBSC.html

One isnt only judged by their words - but also by their actions. Anyone who is remotely aware of the issue would have cut that comment short - and he isn't one to hesitate to do that on his show. Besides, he himself has taken heat on a comment of a similar nature - which he had to apologize for - what does it tell us about his capacity for learning and the apology for his original comment? And yes, please also remind me the use of the code word "homosexual" per Fox News. Oh and do remember the variants of "I know lots of gay people" defense as well. It's almost stereotypical .

AoD

I don't see how any of this is homophobic on Rob's part. He didn't make the comments, and his brother said they don't agree with them. It's one thing to suggest that he should have said something, but its a big leap to say he's homophobic off of that.

Looking at the AIDS statement, first of all, it's not statistically accurate. It may have been at one time, but it's not true now, nor was it in 2006 when he said it. AIDS and HIV was/is growing among many segments of the population, including straight women, both here and in the developing world. When Ford was confronted with these facts, he just doubled down, again, revealing his ignorance. He attributed the rise in HIV rates among women to "sleeping with bi-sexual men".

Also the implication in the statement is that IV drug users and gay people aren't worth spending prevention money on. To me, that goes beyond ignorance.

It is statistically true though, even in 2006. For men, who make up the majority of AIDS cases...

Of the estimated 333,244 male adults and
adolescents living with
AIDS, 60% had been
exposed through male-to-male sexual contact,
19% had been exposed through injection drug
use,

This is taken from a US Aids Surveillance Report from 2006: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/statistics_2006_HIV_Surveillance_Report_vol_18.pdf.

He didn't say anything that wasn't true. Now, I'd agree that the implication of that statement is more concerning, but what the implication actually was is a bit more debatable. I'd chalk it up to him wanting to save money and justifying that by saying it is not a widespread problem and hence, doesn't need a city-wide awareness campaign. I'm not saying I agree with that assessment and it might be a bit ignorant, but I don't think it is homophobic in the least.

He also said he supports traditional marriage and offered support to a fundamentalist Christian pastor who said same-sex marriage could "dismantle" a "healthy democratic civilization." Appearing alongside Pastor Wendell Brereton, Ford said "We're together. We have the same thoughts."

And let's not forget his comments on transgendered people as well as those referring to a video about homosexuality in the Asian Community. He said it was "disgusting."

If I recall, "disgusting" was in reference to spending $4000 on the video. His whole issue wasn't with there being a video about transgendered people, but that the city spent $4000 on it.

As for the other remarks, while I don't agree with them, they weren't exactly out of the norm, particularly with religious folks, even ten years ago. There has been a huge change in public opinion on the issue of gay marriage, and I think it'd be telling if he still is for or against gay marriage. I don't think you can characterize anyone who was ever against gay marriage as homophobes.

For the record, I've always supported gay marriage.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You sound awfully familiar, for someone so new.

AoD

 

[Ramako]

^^
How can that happen when there is no legal way to force him out? Ford has no respect for the office and will not leave voluntarily, so I expect, he will remain mayor, until the next election and possibly longer. We just have to accept that.

The Province can remove him. When the video comes out, I doubt Wynne would have a problem taking him out if he still refuses to leave. When it comes out, everyone will be calling for his head.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I know this game, Stay Mayor, was discussed a few weeks back. It's not been released on the Play Store for those of us who are interested.

Crack pipes!

KFC! Ionically, collecting KFC gains you footballs

I (Ford) win, Toronto loses.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I've been wondering about her shift away from the city beat, given that she is such a staunch supporter of Ford. I wonder if this might be damage control on the part of the Sun -- if Ford does implode, Levy won't be in a position where she's required to comment, since it's no longer her beat.

I think most who've thought about this critically have come to the same conclusion. The Ford already has quite a few reporters at Queen's Park. Just goes to show how little support Ford has, even among "allied" newspapers.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Province can remove him. When the video comes out, I doubt Wynne would have a problem taking him out if he still refuses to leave. When it comes out, everyone will be calling for his head.

I'd prefer if Wynne stays out of it. It may not be a politically smart move.

Instead, Council should reduce Ford's budget to zero. That would carry less political risk. Though I'm sure that Ford nation would play the victim card.

The best move would be to do nothing. Let Ford stay in office. He can do little damage from a policy POV in the next 16 months. Remove him from office democratically in Fall 2014. This presents the smallest political risk.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I've always maintained Rob Ford is homophobic, so much points to it. Today two of my friends went to the flag-raising as they do each year and one went up to Ford and shook his hand. He thanked Rob Ford for attending and reading the proclamation, made some friendly small talk for a minute or so and then Ford pulled away to move onto someone else but not before wishing my friend "a happy pride" (?!). Rob Ford seemed a little tense, but was making an effort to "do the rounds" and speak to people at the event. When my friend spoke to brother Doug (who was all smiles and holding a rainbow flag) Doug said it was an honor to wave the flag. Are they both on crack now? Did we all just enter a third dimension?
This now breaks the ice for next year's World Pride in Toronto. Colour me impressed.

 

[Tulse]

I'd prefer if Wynne stays out of it. It may not be a politically smart move.

I don't want Wynne to remove Ford directly, but I would be extremely pleased if she gave all municipalities some sort of tools to remove rogue mayors (and perhaps even councillors) themselves -- for example, allow recall of a mayor with a 3/4 vote of a city council.

This approach still gives the city itself the final say, while correcting a major lack in current municipal law.

 

[Tulse]

Colour me impressed.

I agree. While Ford's still a hypocrite for voting against funding Pride, we at least have to give him credit for doing what we've long called for him to do, which is go to the flag-raising.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't want Wynne to remove Ford directly, but I would be extremely pleased if she gave all municipalities some sort of tools to remove rogue mayors (and perhaps even councillors) themselves -- for example, allow recall of a mayor with a 3/4 vote of a city council.

This approach still gives the city itself the final say, while correcting a major lack in current municipal law.

A recall should only be used in the most extreme of cases. 3/4 of Council voting for a recall is not extreme enough. We can't be recalling politicians whenever we don't like them. There has to be some sort of political stability.

But I do think that there should be some kind of recall system.

...made some friendly small talk for a minute or so and then Ford pulled away to move onto someone else but not before wishing my friend "a happy pride" (?!).

Is there cake for going to pride now?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I agree. While Ford's still a hypocrite for voting against funding Pride, we at least have to give him credit for doing what we've long called for him to do, which is go to the flag-raising.

In his defence, he also votes against every other cultural event. Though that doesn't negate the fact that Ford is a blatant homophobe and bigot.

 

[Tulse]

A recall should only be used in the most extreme of cases. 3/4 of Council voting for a recall is not extreme enough. We can't be recalling politicians whenever we don't like them.

I would think that if a mayor has lost the support of 3/4 of council, making them go through an election isn't really "extreme". I really don't want the province to tackle rogue mayors on a case-by-case basis, as that makes lousy law. And I don't see any reasonable legal mechanism that could both a) get Ford out if the video surfaces but he isn't charged, and b) not seem "not extreme enough" by the standards you seem to have.

Alternatively, what legal mechanism would you propose that would be applicable in other cases but that would meet the severity criteria you have?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would think that if a mayor has lost the support of 3/4 of council, making them go through an election isn't really "extreme". I really don't want the province to tackle rogue mayors on a case-by-case basis, as that makes lousy law. And I don't see any reasonable legal mechanism that could both a) get Ford out if the video surfaces but he isn't charged, and b) not seem "not extreme enough" by the standards you seem to have.

Alternatively, what legal mechanism would you propose that would be applicable in other cases but that would meet the severity criteria you have?

Perhaps having 5,000 citizens walk into City Hall to formally sign a request for a recall all within 48 hours. At that point it triggers an emergency vote in Council. If Council votes 70% vote yes, then there should be an election. If a politician is hated enough getting 5,000 signatures shouldn't be a problem. But it's a tough enough requirement that a merely unpopular mayor can't be forced to recall.

 

[Tulse]

I think that proposal also works, although the petition numbers would have to be a percentage of the city population, rather than a fixed number, since we ideally want something that would function for Ontario cities in general. (That said, if we go by percentage, that works out to about 0.1% of the city population, which means the mechanism could be triggered in small towns by just a handful of signatures.)