[canmark]

John Lorinc in Spacing: John Tory's mayoral dilemma

 

[JWBF]

More compassionate?..

I was set to type an essay in response, however, your points have been debated at length, and the conclusions are that Ford is not a leader and rushes to judgement based on his own narrow views that are based on self imposed ignorance. This attitude leaves Ford to make commands, and he refuses to compromise on any issue his "people" who are acting as his advisors. This last point allows Ford to avoid any and all opinions and/or decisions that fail, or just become unpopular.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Not only did Ford skip out on the Pride Parade but more importantly, last year he did not go to ANY of the Pride events, for the 10 day festival. He can't even use his family long weekend away at the cottage to justify it. Now how do you justify a mayor, who will go to the opening of a gas station in Etobicoke or Scarborough but will not attend a single event of a 10 day festival, that brings in OVER 100 MILLION dollars to the city? In all of Ford's years in politics, he has never attended gay events like Pride (or anything else) but he has attended just about every business, ethnic, cultural and BIA event in the city. Why is that?

Is there any doubt, that Ford has been avoiding anything to do with Pride? Even Ford Nation knows the deal and probably a lot of them get a kick out of it but any reasonable person would conclude the obvious, that Ford does not want to be around gays and lesbians. The man is clearly a bigot and a homophobe.

The only reason Ford went to the flag raising this year, is because there was so much pressure on him and he knows it made him and the city he represents, look bad. It was Doug that actually forced him to go. He clearly, was not happy to be there. (Did you see the pics, with his miserable face? lol) Ford doesn't even try to hide it because he believes this supporters are homophobic, just like him, so it won't lose him many votes. Hopefully our next mayor will have a more enlightened view.

People need to stop justifying homophobia and a mayor who seeks to divide Torontonians. That can only be a bad thing for this city.

Maybe it's not so much that he's a homophobe -- although he may well be -- but that he knows that Ford Nation is homophobic. LGBTQs tend to be lefty and downtowners. What's more, the walking-in-the-heat to winning-votes ratio doesn't work out in his favour.

My guess is that his homophobia is typical white trash boy ignorance. He could be educated, but there's no percentage in it for him.

When I look at him, I see a very very unhappy person who self-medicates. If not with crack or or cheap vodka, then with junk food he most likely sneak eats. I wonder what happened to him being the youngest brother with his father and the other two lording it over him. How much did he have to prove? How much did he have to yuck it up to deflect what they dished out?

Of course, I am two-bit psychoanalyzing here but I have seen this before. It's a classic pathology.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Maybe it's not so much that he's a homophobe -- although he may well be -- but that he knows that Ford Nation is homophobic. LGBTQs tend to be lefty and downtowners.

I thought it was LGBTQITSLFA now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I thought it was LGBTQITSLFA now.

Nope. I'm fairly sure it's LGBTQIA. Lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer (?), intersex and asexual. I prefer LGBT.

 

[ttk77]

I thought it was LGBTQITSLFA now.

If your point is that sexual minorities are inclusive and look out for each other then yeah, and I think that's pretty great. I'm guessing that's not what you were getting at though.

 

[Tulse]

Nope. I'm fairly sure it's LGBTQIA. Lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer (?), intersex and asexual.

I find it easier to remember QUILTBAG: queer, unidentified, intersexed, lesbian, transgendered, bisexual, asexual, and gay.

That said, I figure folks get to identify themselves however they like...

 

[BurlOak]

My guess is that his homophobia is typical white trash boy ignorance.

My guess is that other cultures and races are more homophobic than white Europeans. I thought polling suggested that Ford got just as much support, if not more, from minorities. But I guess it is ok for you to be racist against whites.

 

[Tulse]

what I'm saying is that if somebody really doesn't see equal amounts of stupidity on both sides, they're probably blinded by bias.

There can be stupidity on both sides without the sides having equal amounts.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My guess is that other cultures and races are more homophobic than white Europeans. I thought polling suggested that Ford got just as much support, if not more, from minorities. But I guess it is ok for you to be racist against whites.

Russians are not showing much tollerance back in the motherland.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

My guess is that other cultures and races are more homophobic than white Europeans. I thought polling suggested that Ford got just as much support, if not more, from minorities.

One does not rule out the other. Other cultures/races/religions are probably more homophobic. Minorities, who may well be more conservative probably did support him. That doesn't mean that a white boy from Etobicoke can't be homophobic, and labeling him "white trash" when he behaves like a drunken bellicose lout is fair game and not racist. I use it in a cultural sense here. I can't think of any other way to describe the way the Ford Bros. grew up and now behave. No refinement at all. None. If he had any gay friends in his youth, they probably kept it well-hidden out of fear.

 

[jje1000]

More compassionate? Ignoring the unprecedented amount of humiliating harassment, cruel jokes (how many times have the ) and malicious attacks on the man, I can't even count how many times I've seen people wish death on him or for him to get a heart attack. In fact, on this very forum, several people have wished for his death. We're talking about municipal politics - this unbridled hatred is pretty unprecedented on this political level.

I'm not saying that anybody who is a Ford detractor is necessairly uninformed or blind - what I'm saying is that if somebody really doesn't see equal amounts of stupidity on both sides, they're probably blinded by bias. Almost every issue has idiots on both side, as well as intelligent reasonable people, and if you can't see that, then it probably means you're too partisan to see straight.

While attacking his supporters and wishing death upon him is far too extreme, you ought to remember that Ford himself created and fostered the toxic partisanship we see today- he launched the opening salvos at his inauguration speech and continues to smear others to this day. To say that the man is completely innocent is blind ignorance. If he had shown some respect for everyone ("we're all going to cut down on waste and make this city efficient" vs "I and the taxpayer vs the pinko wasters"), I think that the majority of posters on this forum would at least begrungingly accept his term.

As a side note, Ford's possible homophobia should be treated as a side issue, as the majority of Torontonians likely do not care- the main issues are his lack of honesty, ineptitude, skirting of rules, and constant taking of credit where none is due.

 

[gwanstarr]

If you vote for Ford again, please consider getting bifocals Spider AKA Don in Don Mills, retired but still observant.

Most peoples contributions to this thread range from reasoned disappointment to irrational rage and hatred directed towards Mayor Ford, mainly I think, because he is not only not like them but often diametrically opposed to their opinions on issues.

Those against whom they rail in their derision of “Ford Nation†are only more determined than ever to support the Mayor because they are not like those who are so much better informed and not shy about advertising their supposed superiority. Declaring people to be idiots is not a good recruiting strategy.

Mayor Ford's opponents would be well advised to call off the huff and puff and outrage to concentrate on recruiting a new candidate who shares their vision of the City of Toronto.

I voted for Mayor Ford and may do so again if a more qualified candidate doesn't surface, your task is not to vilify the Mayor but to replace him with a better candidate. Smitherman, Pantalone et al are not that candidate.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My guess is that other cultures and races are more homophobic than white Europeans.

Um... "White European" isn't exactly a culture. And races and cultures are two different things. But I can see what you're trying to say. First generation immigrants (the ones that moved to Canada and lived in their original nation beyond childhood) tend to be more intolerant and conservative. The second generation immigrants are generally much more liberal and inclusive.

 

[CowboyLogic]

So, again, let's go back to how you frame your argument - unless I agree with you, I'm blinded by bias. I give up.

My point is that in regards to Ford - as with almost any issue with public divide - there are both stupid and reasonable people on both sides, and there are usually compelling arguments on both sides. This isn't so much an argument as it is a fact - viewing anyone that disagrees with you as a moron is a way to avoid actually thinking about or examining your own beliefs.

I think one of the hallmarks of critical thinking is being able to understand arguments and views contrary to your own. If you really think that 34% of the city support a man simply because they're brainwashed idiots, then I don't think you can have a real understanding of these issues. This is part of the reason Ford was elected in the first place - people from the suburbs felt neglected and ignored by Toronto politicians.

While attacking his supporters and wishing death upon him is far too extreme, you ought to remember that Ford himself created and fostered the toxic partisanship we see today- he launched the opening salvos at his inauguration speech and continues to smear others to this day. To say that the man is completely innocent is blind ignorance. If he had shown some respect for everyone ("we're all going to cut down on waste and make this city efficient" vs "I and the taxpayer vs the pinko wasters"), I think that the majority of posters on this forum would at least begrungingly accept his term.

As a side note, Ford's possible homophobia should be treated as a side issue, as the majority of Torontonians likely do not care- the main issues are his lack of honesty, ineptitude, skirting of rules, and constant taking of credit where none is due.

I don't think Ford is completely innocent. Far from it. While I do like that he's an "anti-politician" in many senses (in that he speaks his mind, actually fights to fulfill his campaign promises, has little regard for political/social niceties, doublespeak or PR), he definitely is combative to his own detriment.

However, the point was that there is extremism and stupidity on both sides. Somebody put forward the idea that Ford detractors have been more "compassionate" than the supporters and, regardless of where Ford is in that regard, this is just bordering on the delusional IMO. I've never seen such unprecedented hate and attacks than I have with Ford.