[typezed]

Ford isn't an anti-politician. He's all politician. Don't mistake being too cowardly to talk to the media when faced with questions, or too inarticulate to communicate coherent ideas, or too bone-headed to co-operate with others as being something different than everyday politics. You're buying the myth (or likely just spinning it here to kick up dust for yuks). Ford and his endorsers take ineptitude and make it a virtue by pretending he's cutting some new path against entrenched opposition. He's not. He simply does suck at the job.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

There aren't really any ducks *to* get in a row - either the video is part of the gathered evidence or its not. If it's there there's nothing at this point Ford can do to mitigate the damage of people actually seeing it. Not now, not 6 months from now. Only if its pushed beyond next fall could it matter.

If the video of Rob Ford is identified as evidence by the media lawyers it need not be seen to finally put an end to whether it exists or not, only those wearing aluminum foil on their heads will continue to deny the truth.

His statements aren't inaccurate, and I posted the statistics on here a few weeks back. Homosexuals and drug users make up the majority of HIV infections. Obviously anybody can get it, but he was completely correct to state that chances are that you probably won't get HIV if you aren't in one of those two groups.

IV drug use is a leading cause for HIV infection in many developed countries which is why safe injection sites must be supported. Also highly at risk are minority communities and straight youth. Somehow I missed your post on the statistics, I'd like to see where you sourced them.

 

[syn]

Ford isn't an anti-politician. He's all politician. Don't mistake being too cowardly to talk to the media when faced with questions, or too inarticulate to communicate coherent ideas, or too bone-headed to co-operate with others as being something different than everyday politics. You're buying the myth (or likely just spinning it here to kick up dust for yuks). Ford and his endorsers take ineptitude and make it a virtue by pretending he's cutting some new path against entrenched opposition. He's not. He simply does suck at the job.

Exactly. Well put. Ford's "Anti-Politician" act is about as "Politician" as it gets.

 

[VoicesCarry]

If the video of Rob Ford is identified as evidence by the media lawyers it need not be seen to finally put an end to whether it exists or not, only those wearing aluminum foil on their heads will continue to deny the truth.



IV drug use is a leading cause for HIV infection in many developed countries which is why safe injection sites must be supported. Also highly at risk are minority communities and straight youth. Somehow I missed your post on the statistics, I'd like to see where you sourced them.

Here you go: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/surveillance/incidence/.

As I stated in my previous response to CowboyLogic, simply being gay is not a risk factor for HIV, so Ford's statement is quite inaccurate - and the inference is insulting to the gay community. (Ford himself admitted as much when he apologized for the comment years later, a story which the Star covered in happier times.) An accurate statement would have been: "If you don't engage in high-risk behaviours, you probably won't get AIDS." The virus doesn't discriminate based on your sexuality. But that wouldn't have served Ford's agenda to cut funding from educational programs for HIV prevention.

Ford's attempt to label the disease as a "gay" disease so as to stigmatize it and imply that those affected (and those at risk of infection) do not deserve support from the community is what's homophobic. Is it relevant in any way that the disease is more prevalent in the gay community? Nope - not unless you see homosexuality as a reason to restrict access to care and prevention programs. This perspective is straight out of 1982.

If Ford's statement had begun: "If you're not doing needles and you're not black..." - in reference to a disease that was prevalent in the black community, then absolutely no one would be defending it, and rightly so.

 

[adma]

W/Peter Milczyn's pending departure for the provincial scene, looks like there's another gaping executive committee hole to be filled...

 

[the lemur]

I've never seen such unprecedented hate and attacks than I have with Ford.

If by 'hate and attacks' you mean criticism, exasperation, anger at his disregard for proper procedure and the job of being mayor in general, you may have a point. But a lot of Ford supporters seem to treat any criticism of him as unwarranted, baseless and unfair by definition. It's as if 'leave the poor guy alone' somehow excuses anything his detractors might get worked up about.

I seem to recall a lot of undignified bashing of Miller that bordered on the hysterical at times, especially in certain corners of the media. Let's not lose sight of the fact that unlike with his predecessor, no newspaper has seen fit to portray Ford as Hitler in a front-page editorial cartoon.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

CowboyLogic:

I think one of the hallmarks of critical thinking is being able to understand arguments and views contrary to your own. If you really think that 34% of the city support a man simply because they're brainwashed idiots, then I don't think you can have a real understanding of these issues. This is part of the reason Ford was elected in the first place - people from the suburbs felt neglected and ignored by Toronto politicians.

But the question then becomes - are people from the suburbs actually neglected and ignored by Toronto politicians? If one insist on critical thinking, shouldn't said 34% of the populace a) engage in the same and b) see through the blatantly false rhetoric? Surely that is the hallmark of critical thinking - i.e. not falling for the soundbite.

I don't think Ford is completely innocent. Far from it. While I do like that he's an "anti-politician" in many senses (in that he speaks his mind, actually fights to fulfill his campaign promises, has little regard for political/social niceties, doublespeak or PR), he definitely is combative to his own detriment.

He was utterly silent for 7 full days and provided a subsequent response that is parsed to high heavens - does that sound like someone who "spoke his mind", much less not engaging in doublespeak or PR (note the constant use of code words and soundbites throughout his campaign and mayoralty). What does one's critical thinking tells you?

However, the point was that there is extremism and stupidity on both sides. Somebody put forward the idea that Ford detractors have been more "compassionate" than the supporters and, regardless of where Ford is in that regard, this is just bordering on the delusional IMO. I've never seen such unprecedented hate and attacks than I have with Ford.

Compassion is offered for those without the means to defend themselves - is Rob Ford in that category, considering his background? And shouldn't those who demand compassion from others be the first to offer it to others less fortunate than they are, instead of supporting someone who see nothing wrong with labelling and otherwise denigrating them, under the guise of "little regard for political/social niceties"?

And yes, calling someone "left of Stalin" in public is definitely the highlight of "unprecendent" hate and attacks.

AoD

 

[guitarchitect]

I don't think Ford is completely innocent. Far from it. While I do like that he's an "anti-politician" in many senses (in that he speaks his mind, actually fights to fulfill his campaign promises, has little regard for political/social niceties, doublespeak or PR), he definitely is combative to his own detriment... I've never seen such unprecedented hate and attacks than I have with Ford.

Honestly? Boo-hoo for Ford. The guy acts like a complete dick at every turn (which isn't even to mention Doug's behaviour), so if he gets a lot of blowback, he's sleeping in the bed he's made. You call that "Anti-political", but most everyone else calls it the beahaviour of a self-entitled jerk who gets everything he wants by trying to steamroll anyone who opposes him - and guess what? As the Mayor of Toronto, you don't get to act that way without being heavily criticized for it. That heavy criticism is what is causing the man to leave by the back door, keep his schedule secret, and refuse to talk to the media... and only speak out in the safe haven of his radio show, where he gets coddled further by his producers and co-host.

As a cyclist in this city, he has yet to refer to me as a hard-working taxpayer and decries infrastructure for me as a waste of taxpayers' money. He even spends more money to take out said infrastructure than it cost to put it in. He tells me that if a car runs me over, it's my own fault. How do you think I am supposed to react to that when someone tears a strip off him for acting like a jerk? How do you think everyone else is supposed to react - those in the same boat as me as well as those he has offended saying the same calibre of stuff about them? You think I'm going to stand up and say "Aw, he's just misunderstood, maybe we should give him a pass on these inflated numbers and the fact that he doesn't seem to do anything and never works to find compromise with City Council, and blindly votes against funding any kind of social programs?"

Maybe the reason he has so much unprecedented hate and attacks sent in his direction is because... wait for it... never has a "politician" in this city handed out as much hate and attacks as Ford has. All he seems to be able to do is take a dump where he sleeps - if he's getting filthy, it's his own damn fault.

 

[Tulse]

simply being gay is not a risk factor for HIV

Actually, if you're female, being exclusively gay is a protective factor:

To date, there are no confirmed cases of female-to-female sexual transmission of HIV in the United States

If Rob Ford is really worried about AIDS he should become a lesbian.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Actually, if you're female, being exclusively gay is a protective factor:



If Rob Ford is really worried about AIDS he should become a lesbian.

I really don't understand why we're providing HIV protection to people. If you're not black, straight or gay, you have nothing to worry about.

/sarcasm

 

[JayBeeGooner]

However, the point was that there is extremism and stupidity on both sides. Somebody put forward the idea that Ford detractors have been more "compassionate" than the supporters and, regardless of where Ford is in that regard, this is just bordering on the delusional IMO. I've never seen such unprecedented hate and attacks than I have with Ford.

Typical Conservative tactic. "Both sides do it", and treating warranted and justified criticism as attacks.

 

[k10ery]

Not sure if you're genuinely curious about Gee's shittily executed theft from GraphicMatt. To me Gee is clearly pushing the narrative that, notwithstanding Ford's oafish/criminal/crack-addled behaviour, Ford's "bottom line" moves have been "successful", and in that respect, the less scrutiny the better. The same refrain is being peddled by numerous conservative supporters who, while too ashamed to "support" Ford, are anxious to retrieve the meatier nuggets of the RoFo legacy from the bottom of the toilet before flushing.

Perhaps, but if he wanted to push that line then why not make the argument that the $600 mill is real? To ignore it seems lazy even for Marcus Gee.

But maybe you're right, and he's just conflicted. Gee basically endorsed Ford in 2010. Since then he's seemed embarrassed by him at times, but until a new conservative standard bearer comes along Rob is all Gee has got.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Just wondering about how much the Toronto Police Service is behind Rob Ford in keeping the search warrant documents secret until August 27. See this link.

Seems that they have better relations then some other country's leaders and their armed forces. See about Egypt's President Morsi ousted from power by military at this link.

 

[Forgotten]

You condone random assaults? Or rather approve of a society that tolerates them?

Aren't laws made to be enforced?

If there was ever proof of a war on Rob Ford, its this Shannon Everett business. The mayor gets assaulted, and currently he's being lambasted for "talking" about the incident (which really amounted to him acknowledging a drink was thrown at him). If somebody shot Mayor Ford, people would be criticizing him for getting in the way of the bullet.

These allegations are ridiculous. Ms. Everett wasn't even at the festival, so someone's trying to do a real hatchet job on her. The reports in the Toronto Star are outright lies. The story is not accurate whatsoever. A complete fabrication. They're a bunch of pathological liars. It's just a bunch of sleazy, sleazy journalism. They're lower than a bunch of fucking politicians. It makes me sick.

If there are witnesses Why are they unidentified and unnamed? Because they're cowards. It's all hearsay and circumstantial. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Furthermore I have no knowledge, I have not seen any indication of her doing anything like this or anything else for that matter. The only way to confirm this is when the video comes out but even then as we all know videos can be altered and we certainly know politicians can't be trusted, so we don't really know what we're dealing with here. I have seen a movie with an eagle picking up a baby. You can do a lot with modern technology.

But hypothetically, if this alleged assault did happen, it was only because Rob Ford had his hand on her ass. It looked like he was on crack or something. I mean she's not perfect. (but she's close)

What is the next stop on the smear campaign and when is it going to stop? God bless.

 

[Forgotten]

There's no reasonable debate on either side, and ThinkRicky's post is pretty much proof of that. While there are plenty of people who support Ford for poor reasons, there are equally as many who dislike Ford for poor or imaginary reasons (homophobe, racist, he's fat, he's red, never had a job, runs a propaganda machine, etc, etc). Most of the criticism that gets flung at him is baseless or irrelevant: he's a homophobe because he said something statistically true, he's a vandalizer because he put magnets on cars, etc.

The reason people are so passionately blind in their support of Ford is the same reason people are so passionately blind in their hatred of Ford. He's a controversial figure, says exactly what he thinks and is the antithesis of both your average politician and politics in general.

If any of you honestly think that there isn't an equal amount of baseless blind hatred of the man as there is adoration, then you're probably just as blind as the Ford Nation supporters you lambast.

I'm not saying that anyone who dislikes Ford is unreasonable or blind. In particular, I like Edward Keenan's column in The Grid: he offers some thoughtful and nuanced criticisms of Ford. However, it bothers me whenever I see Ford Nation characterized as stupid by the same people whose criticism of him is "hes a fat homophobic racist facist bigot fat fuck!!!!"

That's like saying there's no reasonable debate between scientists and the Flat Earth Society as if there should be.