[Jonny5]

it's definitely not ok to be gay on Bay ...
maybe on Wall St in NYC or "the City / The Square Mile" in London UK if one was 'the Golden Boy' making multi-million $$$ deals, otherwise the financial industry is very conservative .




sure he could have made a complaint, and like you said, proving it to HR is difficult.
bring it up to Human Rights Commission and guaranteed to be black-listed in the industry ...
it's very small and very much still part of 'the old boys club' - and not in the gay way.

Heh. I've never worked for a firm that has an HR department.
You are bang on about the black-listing. If you are big revenue generator, the old boys club will tolerate you, otherwise, you are supposed to keep your mouth shut and are tolerated until someone else comes along who can fill your role.

 

[Gavin]

You think Burke would be there if his son didnt pass away in the unforunate car accident?

Actually, yes. Burke was marching (this year and last) to honour the promise he made to his son to march with him in the parade after he first came out. After Brendan passed, Brian still marched.

 

[tkip]

it's definitely not ok to be gay on Bay ...
maybe on Wall St in NYC or "the City / The Square Mile" in London UK if one was 'the Golden Boy' making multi-million $$$ deals, otherwise the financial industry is very conservative .




sure he could have made a complaint, and like you said, proving it to HR is difficult.
bring it up to Human Rights Commission and guaranteed to be black-listed in the industry ...
it's very small and very much still part of 'the old boys club' - and not in the gay way.

Not disagreeing. And I learned the hard way that HR isn't your friend. Their obligation is to the organization. Only special cases get the real treatment.

 

[to_l]

How do I treat gay people differently? When I have my quiet, private thoughts on marriage, how do I mistreat and oppress gays? What we're really talking about here are the thought police. And absolutely we've driven most of our prejudices underground but they're still there. Are people living in a bubble or something?

The problem now is that, through his actions, Ford has brought these prejudices to the surface and certain parts of the population no longer feel it necessary to keep these discrimatory thoughts below the surface.

 

[tkip]

And the wheel keeps on turning... What I find interesting is the denial there's any real change in how we treat each other.

Yet in modern society we have endless examples of how people have in fact, been mistreated and nothing could be done about it. So while on the surface, things aren't as overt, it's obvious that in more subtle ways, people are still treating each other like crap when the opportunity arises and the means to do so presents itself. We play at being nice but it's an illusion.

Just look at how we treat each other on this board. It's not pretty most of the time. Like I said earlier. We're selfish, petty tribal creatures.

 

[to_l]

Subtle is the keyword there. It's becoming more and more overt and bubbling just below the surface and you have no problem with that?

 

[nfitz]

Because believing that marriage is between men and women is an opinion. This doesn't mean discrimination.

How is it any less discriminatory than having the opinion that marriage shouldn't be between (for example) black and white? How is this any different that the reports we still see in this city of people attacking people because they are gay, or not promoting them because they are gay?

I can't believe after so many people here have drawn you attention to how discriminatory this is, that you still come here and defend your right to discriminate and hold a view that is contrary to what the courts to be basic human rights.

 

[tkip]

Subtle is the keyword there. It's becoming more and more overt and bubbling just below the surface and you have no problem with that?

I have a problem but it's beyond my control. You can't change human nature. It's hardwired into us. Our entire history up to the present is the record.

When times are good, people will generally get along better with each other. When times are tough, they'll turn on each other. Or there are many, many others that will seize an opportunity for advancement or plain old petty vendettas to carry out and false rumours and allegations will spread like wildfire.

I already talked about my own experiences at work several years ago regarding how several women treated me and others, used the system to wreck punishment on their enemies.

There were also two rival groups of women out to destroy each other and they were flooding HR with false allegations. How do you stop this? This is pandemic everywhere if you pay attention. Every single workplace I've been in has endless examples of people betraying and backstabbing and serving up co-workers to management for all kinds of reasons.

Look, I don't have a high opinion of people in general because I've been watching how people act for decades now and it isn't pretty.

 

[to_l]

I'm not talking about you being able to control it though. I'm talking about the mayor and how he could have allevaited it by showing his support and endorsment for a group that has been shown overt forms of discrimination and prejudice; instead his actions have just brought them closer to the surface. Whether he likes it or not, the mayor is a public person and his actions will be what people see as being reflective of what is acceptable within the city. And whether we like it or not, gays are still an easy target for discriminatory and prejudical action.

 

[tkip]

I'm not talking about you being able to control it though. I'm talking about how the mayor could have allevaited it by showing his support and endorsment for a group that has been shown overt forms of discrimination and prejudice; instead his actions have just brought them closer to the surface. Whether he likes it or not, the mayor is a public person and his actions will be what people see as being reflective of what is acceptable within the city.

You might have a more convincing case except as I pointed out earlier, it was reported that he skipped the Canada Day celebrations as well.

Does he hate Canada? By skipping the celebrations is he showing contempt towards other canadians? What if he skipped the Portuguese festival? Would that be an indication of discrimination against them? Of course, nfitz would say "yes" cause he accused Ford of hating immigrants as well before but I digress.

The criticism should focus that of Ford on his record of missing engagements of any and all types as mayor. Not just one particular event.

 

[to_l]

I've stated before that he should have shown up for something on Canada Day. I think that he's shirking his duty by not doing so and certainly not showing at least a minimum amount of respect for the celebration.

If the Portugese festival is meant to highlight and celebrate recent hard-won rights and freedom of an oppressed minority within mainstream society, and the freedom to be who they are without fear of violence, discrimination, and prejudice, then yes, if he skipped it, I would say he was, at best, non-supportive of these people's rights and what they had to endure to gain these rights.

As any number of people have stated, all he had to do was show up for one single event in the entirety of Pride week and this discussion would not have happened.

p/s: And yes, everyone faces discrimination but certain groups experience higher and more frequent instances of discrimination than others.

 

[nfitz]

You might have a more convincing case except as I pointed out earlier, it was reported that he skipped the Canada Day celebrations as well.

Oh, that's completely disingenuous. We know he isn't prejudiced against Canada; he's been photographed in front of the Canadian flag in his office enough times.

The issue is that he has admitted to being prejudiced against gays. The issue is that he missed an entire 10 days of events, and could easily have spared 15 minutes to attend the flag raising outside his own office - instead of of his bizarre departure from City Hall that day to prove that he's a man by visiting the Toronto Maple Leafs arena (you'd think he'd have seen it before ...).

His action spreads the message that it's okay to be prejudiced against gays. This could lead to increased violence against gays ... and even bring out those who are so prejudiced that they argue in public forums that it's okay to discriminate against gays.

It's a terribly cowardly act - and demonstrates once again that Ford is a very weak leader and shouldn't be in public service representing us all.

 

[Ak2809]

Somehow I doubt that Rob Ford skipping Pride celebrations is going to cause an increase in violence against gays. That is just a silly argument.

 

[nfitz]

Somehow I doubt that Rob Ford skipping Pride celebrations is going to cause an increase in violence against gays. That is just a silly argument.

Why silly?

We've seen right here that it's emboldened those who are prejudiced against gays. I'm not saying anyone here would ever do anything like that ... but for those that would ... wouldn't it be better for them to see someone who might have a bit of a reputation for being anti-gay (deserved or not) participating with the gay community, rather than shunning them?

 

[tkip]

Why silly?

We've seen right here that it's emboldened those who are prejudiced against gays. I'm not saying anyone here would ever do anything like that ... but for those that would ... wouldn't it be better for them to see someone who might have a bit of a reputation for being anti-gay (deserved or not) participating with the gay community, rather than shunning them?

nfitz you're completely out to lunch.

Now you've sunk to a level I didn't think possible. Trying to link any act of aggression with Ford? Is this how far you are willing to stoop in your attempt to asassinate Ford's character? By trying to suggest that with Ford as mayor, someone is going to commit violence against a gay person somewhere?

As Ak2809 stated, it's beyond the realm of possibilities that Ford skipping Pride would result in any increase of crime against gays.

But here you on this board, suggesting with Ford as mayor it's likely that someone is going to go out and attack a gay person. Your comments are the most offensive and disturbing I've seen on this board. You secretly want something bad to happen to Ford. You just can't admit this. Your posts drip with hatred towards this man.

There is no doubt that someone like you is the true threat because you want others with differing opinions to be shut down and removed.