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gabe
Guest
Republican style politics comes north!!!! The police get a raise and yet Ford wants to cut firefighters? Where is the logic? I'm looking forward to watching Ford's ratings sink fastser than the titanic!
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- Thread starter MetroMan
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Republican style politics comes north!!!! The police get a raise and yet Ford wants to cut firefighters? Where is the logic? I'm looking forward to watching Ford's ratings sink fastser than the titanic!
TonyV
Senior Member
The cuts haven't happened yet but already the news is getting tiresome. Cuts to park maintenance are being considered, along with some of the unusual touches that central Toronto has, such as the petting zoo in Riverdale Farms (in Cabbagetown neighbourhood).
The message that Ford is trying to send out is that this rich city can't afford the unusual niceties that Toronto has become known for. Cheap-minded Ford wins office, Toronto loses. I am sure that there are more ON1s around who regret voting for Ford now. Ford is in for a really rough ride. I expect the mainstream press to hammer the guy!
cdr108
Senior Member
sure, go for it RF.
save a few dollars in property taxes, yet we'll all paying few hundred dollars more in property insurance.
from the article:
Sources say Chief Bill Stewart recently submitted a report to the budget committee stating 22 trucks — about 300 firefighters — would need to be pulled off the road to meet the mayor’s reduction target.
A cut of that size would mean a 16 per cent service reduction, which union leaders say will send insurance rates up and put lives at risk.
“It’s going to be devastating. They’re playing Russian roulette with people’s lives,” said Ed Kennedy, president of the Toronto Professional Firefighters Association.
Toronto Fire is already spread dangerously thin and understaffed compared with other municipalities, he said.
It’s a claim that seems to be supported by the KPMG core service review, which found that “Toronto has fewer vehicles deployed per capita than other cities in Ontario.”
KPMG also found Toronto’s travel time to calls is 24 per cent longer than the council-approved target. This will only get worse if even more teams are pulled off the road, Kennedy said.
Staffing and response times are used by the Fire Underwriters Survey to determine a city’s risk grade, which insurance companies use to set rates for homeowners. Typically, the longer the response time, the higher the cost.
Survey director Mike Currie said it’s hard to say for sure without knowing specifics, but it’s logical that a cut to staffing that big would affect insurance rates. The actual grading process is complex, he said, involving 500 variables — with staffing being one.
“But generally, you could make a fairly accurate statement: When you see decreases in the investment in fire protection, then you typically see fire insurance grades (get worse) and property insurances rates probably go up,” Currie said.
In 2002, the Fire Underwriters Survey sent a warning to the City of Toronto that failure to replace aging firetrucks would affect its safety grade.
jaycola
Active Member
Ford would be smart to leave the Jarvis bike lanes as is, at least in the short term, as a cost saving measure. The Spending the money to revert the lanes seems to me like a waste of money. There is not enough benifit gained to qualify the cost at this time. Move on to other cost saving measures and chalk this up to a poor decision made by a previous council. Stop the bleeding on this one now.
jje1000
Senior Member
Ford's not a fiscal conservative in the true sense, he's a populist. Reason and facts are irrelevant as long as his supporters continue to believe what he says.
Jarvis is an entirely political move.
syn
Senior Member
Riverdale Farm could fall victim to Toronto budget cuts
Elizabeth Church
Globe and Mail Update
Published Thursday, Jul. 14, 2011 11:12AM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Jul. 14, 2011 2:30PM EDT
The hunt for savings at Toronto city hall is moving on to neighbourhood zoos, farms, trees and gardens with the fourth and latest instalment of a consultant’s report combing through parks and environment services.
Shutting down the High Park Zoo, Riverdale Farm and the Far Enough Farm on Toronto Island, and scrapping the Toronto Environmental Office are singled out as potential cost-saving moves by the KPMG study. It also suggests tapping volunteers from sports and gardening clubs to maintain playing fields and flower beds. Alternatively, the report says these services could be contracted out.
About 83 per cent of the $187-million parks and environment budget is essential, say the consultants who spent five months reviewing more than 150 city services to finds ways to save. Of the remaining activities, the report zeros in on the Environment Office, with a budget of $11.5-million. The zoo and farms located in the city’s parks – The Toronto Zoo is a separate corporation – are “above standard services,†that represent a “high†potential savings and have a budget of $1.4-million, the consultants say.
Fewer trees and flowers, reduced litter pick up and longer grass are also given as options by the report, which notes that horticultural activities are “not related to maintaining the safety of parks.†It also singles out programs that give access to parkland to local residents to plant gardens.
“This is really a Scrooge special from KPMG to city council,†said councillor Paula Fletcher. “People will be shocked when they hear what the suggestions are. That in order to save money we would shut the zoos, shut the farms, reduce tree planting, reduce grass cutting, reduce litter pickup, eliminate flowers in our parks and eliminate community gardens. What kind of a 21st-century plan is that?
“This is a recipe for disaster for Toronto’s parks. It simply can’t go forward.â€
The suggestion of chopping the city’s environmental activities, a legacy of former mayor David Miller’s time in office, does not take into account the bigger costs to society of not addressing issues such as air quality and global warming, said Franz Hartmann, executive director of the Toronto Environmental Alliance.
“Torontonians don’t want to live in a city where clean air and a clean environment are considered gravy,†he said.
The findings of the $350,000 study are being rolled out in stages for committees to review. The Parks and Environment committee with discuss the report’s findings next week. A special meeting of city council in September will have the final say on the cuts.
The city is looking to close a funding gap in next year’s budget estimated to be about $775-million.
Elizabeth Church
Globe and Mail Update
Published Thursday, Jul. 14, 2011 11:12AM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Jul. 14, 2011 2:30PM EDT
The hunt for savings at Toronto city hall is moving on to neighbourhood zoos, farms, trees and gardens with the fourth and latest instalment of a consultant’s report combing through parks and environment services.
Shutting down the High Park Zoo, Riverdale Farm and the Far Enough Farm on Toronto Island, and scrapping the Toronto Environmental Office are singled out as potential cost-saving moves by the KPMG study. It also suggests tapping volunteers from sports and gardening clubs to maintain playing fields and flower beds. Alternatively, the report says these services could be contracted out.
About 83 per cent of the $187-million parks and environment budget is essential, say the consultants who spent five months reviewing more than 150 city services to finds ways to save. Of the remaining activities, the report zeros in on the Environment Office, with a budget of $11.5-million. The zoo and farms located in the city’s parks – The Toronto Zoo is a separate corporation – are “above standard services,†that represent a “high†potential savings and have a budget of $1.4-million, the consultants say.
Fewer trees and flowers, reduced litter pick up and longer grass are also given as options by the report, which notes that horticultural activities are “not related to maintaining the safety of parks.†It also singles out programs that give access to parkland to local residents to plant gardens.
“This is really a Scrooge special from KPMG to city council,†said councillor Paula Fletcher. “People will be shocked when they hear what the suggestions are. That in order to save money we would shut the zoos, shut the farms, reduce tree planting, reduce grass cutting, reduce litter pickup, eliminate flowers in our parks and eliminate community gardens. What kind of a 21st-century plan is that?
“This is a recipe for disaster for Toronto’s parks. It simply can’t go forward.â€
The suggestion of chopping the city’s environmental activities, a legacy of former mayor David Miller’s time in office, does not take into account the bigger costs to society of not addressing issues such as air quality and global warming, said Franz Hartmann, executive director of the Toronto Environmental Alliance.
“Torontonians don’t want to live in a city where clean air and a clean environment are considered gravy,†he said.
The findings of the $350,000 study are being rolled out in stages for committees to review. The Parks and Environment committee with discuss the report’s findings next week. A special meeting of city council in September will have the final say on the cuts.
The city is looking to close a funding gap in next year’s budget estimated to be about $775-million.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
I propose a software company comes up with an intricate "Sim City" type game, custom tailored to individual cities. Toronto would have it's own city program, as would Regina, Vancouver, New York, San Francisco, etc.
It would be like a flight simulator of the position and it's consequences.
The mayor (or mayoral contenders) have to play the game as part of their mayoral training. Anyone who's city does not show a certain percentage of improvement during their reign would have to train and train again.
A round of play would be held during the election, and the full scores made public.
It would be like a flight simulator of the position and it's consequences.
The mayor (or mayoral contenders) have to play the game as part of their mayoral training. Anyone who's city does not show a certain percentage of improvement during their reign would have to train and train again.
A round of play would be held during the election, and the full scores made public.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Toronto is a world class city no longer.
New York City, London, and Montréal all are world class cities, they are putting IN bicycle lanes. World class cities have zoos. Not Toronto, according to KPMG.
Toronto is becoming a provincial, hick town, not a city any longer. All that is missing is a straw dangling from the mayor's mouth. Animals are for eating, not for viewing, it seems to be.
brockm
Active Member
Unfortunately, this is the state of affairs we have. While I believe that Rob Ford is the biggest moron in the world -- even though I tried to like him -- the fact we're dealing with him today is the fault of the ideological reign of the past.
The fact the city is in such financial dire straights plays into Rob Ford's hands. And even though I despised the man, I think a lot of Miller's urban efforts were laudable. Such as his transit expansion plans, the East Bayfront / Lower Don Lands support through Waterfront Toronto which are now being compromised by Ford.
But instead of focusing on Ford, those on the left who are so discouraged by the loss of these projects should be questioning themselves as to how they managed to create the political conditions in which an idiot like Ford could come to power.
In my opinion, it has little to do with shovel-in-the-ground projects, and everything to do with the anti-union sentiment that has been growing in this city, and the province at-large.
Almost every person I know who hated David Miller, did not hate him because of Transit City, or because of any urban initiative he undertook. But because he was seen as friendly to the unions.
Rob Ford promised to be as unfriendly as humanly possible to the unions, and got more than 50% of the vote.
And let's be clear: the main reason why services and infrastructure expansion at current funding levels is unsustainable is because of labour costs. The city has a sticky-labour problem, as well as labour costs which far exceed market rates due to the city being encumbered by collective bargaining.
The city cannot easily dismiss inefficient workers. Nor can it do what any non-unionized private sector company would do if it needed to retain workers and cut costs -- trim benefits and compensation. It is illegal for any unionized employer to do this.
The only legal way that the city can reduce this cost, is to terminate the services associated with those jobs, as the collective bargaining agreement precludes the city merely reducing staffing levels and or handing out salary reductions.
If the federal and provincial governments were to, tomorrow, remove the right of mandatory collective bargaining for public sector workers, the city of Toronto could fix it's budget deficit tomorrow, with little or no disruption to city services. This is an unassailable fact.
Public sector unions have completely outlived their usefulness and represent nothing more than rent-seeking organizations that drink at the trough of institutions that are not backstopped by any semblance of economic reality. Autoworkers give concessions to their employers, because they know not doing so will put their employer out of business. Public sector workers never give concessions, because they know the government can borrow without a backstop because it has taxpayers to expropriate money from with a legitimate threat of (legal) violence should they not hand it over.
Worse, those taxpayers can't even through democratic-action repudiate public sector unions demands as the labour laws insulate the unions. So the public is almost always guaranteed not to get the government it wants, but more than the government it wants.
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doug
Active Member
So, those who didn't vote for ford are rsponsible for his win?
wow!
brockm
Active Member
No. I merely meant those people who are committed to a future without Rob Ford should reflect on the sorts of policies and political environment that culminated in his win. I didn't vote for Ford. I voted for Rossi. But when you have a populist like Ford winning the populist game, and you want to beat him at it, you really need to consider initial conditions.
As an aside, you should consider the principle of charity when you're having a discussion with people. It will lead to much more productive conversation.
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doug
Active Member
Educating the idiots who voted for him would be a better approach.
You might want to apply your 'advice' to the majority of the posters here.
You might want to apply your 'advice' to the majority of the posters here.
Thanos
Active Member
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brockm
Active Member
So you're saying you'd rather focus on making people share your political dispositions. That's a fine and valid approach. I don't think it will get you very far. I think the issue with the public's perception of public sector unions is salient.
By the quotes around the word "advice", I'm unsure what you're insinuating. It seems dismissive, though.
syn
Senior Member
I'd agree with doug that those who voted for him should be educated.
Toronto's supposed fiscal crisis had little to do with what Ford claimed - he delivered a populist message short on facts but long on rhetoric.
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