AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
That's 'cause two hard-working regular folk Ford Nationals equal three downtown latte-sipping elitists. Ford Math ya know.
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- Thread starter MetroMan
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That's 'cause two hard-working regular folk Ford Nationals equal three downtown latte-sipping elitists. Ford Math ya know.
Greg Banks
Active Member
...chuckle...
YPQ
Active Member
This sounds pretty much exactly right.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I just came across this, how did you guys miss the best Rob Ford headline of the year?!
EagleEye
Senior Member
It's amazing that such a regular guy is rich enough to have season's tickets to the most expensive arena in the NHL, eh?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Videodrome
Senior Member
So, Worms was praising the HHOF appointment and is now highly critical of them?
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/06/why-is-hockey-hall-of-fame-getting-a-break
Turns out Councillor Rob Ford being named to the Hockey Hall of Fame board is not the story.
The average NHL team is worth $490 million and the Toronto Maple Leafs are valued at more than $1 billion. The average NHL player earns $2.4 million but some players make $12 million.
The average NHL hockey ticket is $100. The average Toronto homeowner pays $3,612 in property taxes while the average monthly apartment rental is $1,400.
Meanwhile, the Hockey Hall of Fame pays no property taxes and $1 a year in rent for 50,000 square feet in the heart of downtown. It means the cradle of hockey history and custodian of the Stanley Cup receives what amounts to a subsidy of between $1.5-million and $2-million a year.
Seems the HHOF, which draws 300,000 visitors a year, is a registered charity or a “not for profit cultural institute.”
But it’s not a city department, a city service or housed in a city building so why are Toronto taxpayers subsidizing it?
I set out to find out and had an honest, friendly, enlightening conversion with Hall president Jeff Denomme.
“The Hockey Hall of Fame’s special relationship with the municipal governments in Toronto is entrenched from the development of the Hockey Hall of Fame’s first building at Exhibition Place (on the Canadian National Exhibition grounds owned by the City of Toronto) in 1961 to the city’s progressive assistance and support in the establishment and sustainability of the Hall’s museum premises at Brookfield Place (formerly BCE Place), 1993 to present,” Jeff told me.
Special arrangement describes it — done during Mayor Art Eggleton’s time.
It’s what amounts to a 99-year, rent-free lease that is just 23-years in. After more than 20 years at the CNE, the HHOF was looking for a new home. Montreal and Peterborough were considered but the location at Front and Yonge Sts. was the best deal.
“In the early 1990’s, the developer of BCE Place (later renamed to Brookfield Place), Bell Canada Enterprises, Inc., was required by the City of Toronto to restore the historic Bank of Montreal building on the corner of Front and Yonge Sts., given that it is designated as a heritage property pursuant to the Ontario Heritage Act. The Bank of Montreal building is the iconic streetscape façade of the Hockey Hall of Fame and forms a significant part of its exhibition facilities,” said Denomme.
“Specifically, under then Section 36 (now Section37) of the Ontario Planning Act, municipalities can allow developers to increase the height and density of their developments in return for developers providing public services and facilities. In the case of Brookfield Place, the developer received the increases in height and density from the City of Toronto, in exchange for the provision of facilities, one of which was the requirement to lease approximately 50,000 square feet of space rent free, comprising the whole of the Bank of Montreal building and additional space in the shopping concourse.
“The City of Toronto has the legal right to elect up to three directors,” he said.
Current members are Councillor’s Ford, Mark Grimes and Stephen Holyday.
“The positions on the board date back to the CNE days prior to the relocation and expansion to BCE Place,” said Denomme. “All institutional members (including the City of Toronto) are entrenched in HHOF’s bylaws because they are all key stakeholders and contributors to its growth and development.”
But why does the city need them? The city has no equity in the HHOF and there is no profit coming back.
“Correct, no equity as HHOF is a not-for-profit corporation,” explained Denomme, adding however “property tax exemptions on approx 75,000 square feet,” does exist “but no direct annual contributions.”
The arrangement with the city has indeed grown. The HHOF in 2012 took on 18,000 square feet of rental space at Etobicoke’s Mastercard Centre for its resource centre and archives. Denomme said while the Hall does pay “favourable market rent,” it does qualify “for an exemption from property taxes which is essential to the Hall’s on-going economic viability.”
The questions may not be on why Ford is on the board as much as why any city councillor receives an appointment and how much revenue is being lost?
I love the HHOF which has been a tremendous resource with its excellent staff. But why, in a city where seniors have been evicted out of their TCHC apartments, are Toronto taxpayers subsidizing the rich hockey industry?
Could a city struggling to make budget ask the multi-billion-dollar NHL to chip in a little more to help out?
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/06/why-is-hockey-hall-of-fame-getting-a-break
Turns out Councillor Rob Ford being named to the Hockey Hall of Fame board is not the story.
The average NHL team is worth $490 million and the Toronto Maple Leafs are valued at more than $1 billion. The average NHL player earns $2.4 million but some players make $12 million.
The average NHL hockey ticket is $100. The average Toronto homeowner pays $3,612 in property taxes while the average monthly apartment rental is $1,400.
Meanwhile, the Hockey Hall of Fame pays no property taxes and $1 a year in rent for 50,000 square feet in the heart of downtown. It means the cradle of hockey history and custodian of the Stanley Cup receives what amounts to a subsidy of between $1.5-million and $2-million a year.
Seems the HHOF, which draws 300,000 visitors a year, is a registered charity or a “not for profit cultural institute.”
But it’s not a city department, a city service or housed in a city building so why are Toronto taxpayers subsidizing it?
I set out to find out and had an honest, friendly, enlightening conversion with Hall president Jeff Denomme.
“The Hockey Hall of Fame’s special relationship with the municipal governments in Toronto is entrenched from the development of the Hockey Hall of Fame’s first building at Exhibition Place (on the Canadian National Exhibition grounds owned by the City of Toronto) in 1961 to the city’s progressive assistance and support in the establishment and sustainability of the Hall’s museum premises at Brookfield Place (formerly BCE Place), 1993 to present,” Jeff told me.
Special arrangement describes it — done during Mayor Art Eggleton’s time.
It’s what amounts to a 99-year, rent-free lease that is just 23-years in. After more than 20 years at the CNE, the HHOF was looking for a new home. Montreal and Peterborough were considered but the location at Front and Yonge Sts. was the best deal.
“In the early 1990’s, the developer of BCE Place (later renamed to Brookfield Place), Bell Canada Enterprises, Inc., was required by the City of Toronto to restore the historic Bank of Montreal building on the corner of Front and Yonge Sts., given that it is designated as a heritage property pursuant to the Ontario Heritage Act. The Bank of Montreal building is the iconic streetscape façade of the Hockey Hall of Fame and forms a significant part of its exhibition facilities,” said Denomme.
“Specifically, under then Section 36 (now Section37) of the Ontario Planning Act, municipalities can allow developers to increase the height and density of their developments in return for developers providing public services and facilities. In the case of Brookfield Place, the developer received the increases in height and density from the City of Toronto, in exchange for the provision of facilities, one of which was the requirement to lease approximately 50,000 square feet of space rent free, comprising the whole of the Bank of Montreal building and additional space in the shopping concourse.
“The City of Toronto has the legal right to elect up to three directors,” he said.
Current members are Councillor’s Ford, Mark Grimes and Stephen Holyday.
“The positions on the board date back to the CNE days prior to the relocation and expansion to BCE Place,” said Denomme. “All institutional members (including the City of Toronto) are entrenched in HHOF’s bylaws because they are all key stakeholders and contributors to its growth and development.”
But why does the city need them? The city has no equity in the HHOF and there is no profit coming back.
“Correct, no equity as HHOF is a not-for-profit corporation,” explained Denomme, adding however “property tax exemptions on approx 75,000 square feet,” does exist “but no direct annual contributions.”
The arrangement with the city has indeed grown. The HHOF in 2012 took on 18,000 square feet of rental space at Etobicoke’s Mastercard Centre for its resource centre and archives. Denomme said while the Hall does pay “favourable market rent,” it does qualify “for an exemption from property taxes which is essential to the Hall’s on-going economic viability.”
The questions may not be on why Ford is on the board as much as why any city councillor receives an appointment and how much revenue is being lost?
I love the HHOF which has been a tremendous resource with its excellent staff. But why, in a city where seniors have been evicted out of their TCHC apartments, are Toronto taxpayers subsidizing the rich hockey industry?
Could a city struggling to make budget ask the multi-billion-dollar NHL to chip in a little more to help out?
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Roy's Square
Active Member
Could it be that Councillor Rob Ford is trying to make his comeback by shitting all over the Hockey Hall of Fame?
Say it ain't so, Joe.
Kat_YYZ
Senior Member
Frankly I'm so sick of this story all over twitter. Lots of foreign media musing over the appointment because they don't know how the process works -- that a bunch of city councillors get appointed to a bunch of boards and committees all the time. It's a totally meaningless appointment and there are other 'shady' councillors getting them (Mammo, as mentioned), and the HHOF don't really have any say in it anyways, and he has no power there anyways.
People are all outraged and even sending angry tweets to the HHOF, threatening to boycott them or whatever.
Some might think any bad press surrounding RoFo is good, but I think the same people couldn't be bothered to get mad about more serious things he did that they should be mad about because it affects people's lives. This just contributes to him being martyred ("their ganging up on poor, cancerous Robbie again!") and to a kind of "Rob Ford outrage fatigue" that leads to people just tuning out, not wanting to hear about it anymore -- even when the next outrage is something people actually should get riled up about.
JWBF
Senior Member
What's "hockey"?
Videodrome
Senior Member
That rambling mass of words from Joe is just retaliation for the HHOF distancing themselves from Rob's appointment.
tiffer24
Senior Member
It's an evil construct by athletic "millionaires" to cheat hard-working "taxpayers" from their already meagre existence.
Unless you own season tickets... then it's fucking awesome.
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nohostages
Active Member
Big grin
Jimmi T
Senior Member
That's exactly it. Why do his bosses at the Sun let him get away with this stuff?
John_Dee
Active Member
Sigh. I wish I could agree because on a larger level I'm entirely within lockstep here, Kat. I would have been happy if we'd never heard of former Mayor Assclown and his degenerate clan ever again after the last election. Unfortunately, such is not the case. We're still stuck with them, which means we have to deal. And that means we can't allow them to continue getting away with the shit they pull. As we have seen repeatedly with Ford - and as is the case with all such bullies of his ilk - appeasement doesn't work. "Oh, let's be the bigger man," "Let's be the grown ups in this situation," "Let's not respond in kind when his behavior gets ugly," "Let's allow him to twist the law to suit his own purposes," etc. etc. etc. all amounts to: Let him do whatever he wants without suffering a single consequence. Well, we've tried that, haven't we? And it doesn't work, does it? Not unless the idea is to make him look like a genuinely unstoppable force of nature who has a lot more power and popularity than he actually possesses in reality. If that's the goal, then it works like a charm.
People are all outraged and even sending angry tweets to the HHOF, threatening to boycott them or whatever.
Well, people should be outraged. Even those of us who couldn't care less about sports have heard of the HHOF, which gives it a certain amount of prestige. I'm glad that people associated with the organization are protesting this. They're exactly the sort of allies we need to put the lie to "It's only the snooty downtown faggots, uh, elitists that are against salt-of the-earth, regular guy Rob. Ordinary people love him!" line of bullshit. And more than that, they're right to protest this unstable criminal buffoon being forced on them. Of course it's an outright insult, and the people involved are correct to treat it as such. Why should they have to put up with Ford? The sooner city council realizes this is a factor, the better. It'll save them a lot of embarrassment in the future.
Yes, Ford and his fanbase of rubes will scream bloody murder whenever he encounters the least opposition over anything, but since they'll do that anyway, I say we should actually, y'know, oppose them. It's preferable to the alternative, which is to allow him to skate again and again and again, only to have him turn around and start shrieking about being persecuted the very second he sees an opening where that would benefit him. Haven't we repeatedly seen that little scenario unfold plenty of times already? And yes, I understand the argument that this particular appointment is meaningless and he won't be able to do any harm there - though I wouldn't put it past him; Slob has an undeniable talent in that area, after all - but as I've said, even those of us who aren't sports followers have heard of the Hockey Hall of Fame. I don't doubt that Ford is looking upon this appointment as a real feather in his cap, and for that reason alone he shouldn't get it. Sorry if that sounds petty, but after everything he's done, I don't think he deserves any "rewards," and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion.
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