[Urban_Enthusiast86]

I should be more specific. Rob Ford and supporters are trying to classify Transit City as being nothing but "streetcars". Would this be at all accurate?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Both the downtown network and new TC routes will use similar LRVs. Big Bombardier streetcars with a capacity of about 130 people per car (Eglinton will run 2- or 3-car trains). TC lines will use double-ended vehicles so turn-arounds will require only crossover tracks and not a loop.

They are, by definition, streetcars, but there's a fairly significant difference between the downtown network and the proposed TC network.

 

[js97]

I should be more specific. Rob Ford and supporters are trying to classify Transit City as being nothing but "streetcars". Would this be at all accurate?

Yes it is acurate. It's the same street cars that will be used on queen/king/spadina etc. It shaves 6 minutes.... from the original bus route on the scarborough line.

Transit city seems to be only liked by those that are not actually going to use it.

I still haven't heard from ONE Transit city supporter that will actually have to take it on a regular basis (i.e. lives near the sheppered line)

 

[Jeff]

Eg West frequenter here. The TC plan can't come soon enough. Maybe its a bias cause so much of the Eg plan is underground and the LRV's on Eg are supposed to be 2-3 cars long, but there, thats your first person.

Yes it is acurate. It's the same street cars that will be used on queen/king/spadina etc. It shaves 6 minutes.... from the original bus route on the scarborough line.

Transit city seems to be only liked by those that are not actually going to use it.

I still haven't heard from ONE Transit city supporter that will actually have to take it on a regular basis (i.e. lives near the sheppered line)

 

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

Well in that case, I can see why Rob Ford prefers subways. Although, that isn't exactly the most fiscally conservative position, especially when TC would receive a large portion of the funding from senior levels of government.

 

[Calrissian]

I should be more specific. Rob Ford and supporters are trying to classify Transit City as being nothing but "streetcars". Would this be at all accurate?

No, this is not accurate. While they will use new LRVs, the differences from the downtown mixed traffic ones are:
1.they will allow for all door loading (enter at any of the 3 doors)
2.they will run in their owndedicated Right Of Way (eglinton runs underground for 12 km in city center).
3.the stops will be spaced further apart
4. Left hand turning restrictions on many intersections for cars

 

[paraone]

Let me be the second person to respond that will actually use it. I live in Leslieville and work in scarborough, I will use the Bloor-Danforth line, the RT (or whatever replaces it) and the sheppard east LRT (hopefully there is a link between STC and sheppard)
No these are not the exact same thing as the downtown legacy cars. Much bigger and work very differently, even if they were the same car it's kind of a moot point. They will not run in mixed traffic and if they do get built we can deal with signal priority then.

I'd rather have TC than nothing which is EXACTLY what we have gotten since the 1970's. If I had my way I would make sheppard and eglinton subway, build the DRL from eglinton to eglinton via downtown, then do the rest of the network on the transit city model.


Anyone who is saying these are the same as the queen car is either dense, has an agenda or just plain ol can't read. It's like saying that the NYC subway and long island railroad are the same thing.

 

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

No, this is not accurate. While they will use new LRVs, the differences from the downtown mixed traffic ones are:
1.they will allow for all door loading (enter at any of the 3 doors)
2.they will run in their owndedicated Right Of Way (eglinton runs underground for 12 km in city center).
3.the stops will be spaced further apart
4. Left hand turning restrictions on many intersections for cars

Definitely worth noting. Especially #2.

Anyone who is saying these are the same as the queen car is either dense, has an agenda or just plain ol can't read.

I'm going to give Rob Ford the benefit of the doubt and say it's probably the bolded. It's unfortunate when politicians pull ploys like this. I'd have more respect for his position if he didn't have to lie (or at least be intellectually dishonest) to make his point.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think the key with the Rob Ford mayoralty is to not read too much into anything he says or does. He dislikes streetcars because they get in his way when he drives. He doesn't like Transit City because in his mind it is 'streetcars.' It's very linear thinking and it doesn't go too deep. Ford is unlikely to educate himself about transit and various modes.

 

[Tewder]

I'm going to give Rob Ford the benefit of the doubt and say it's probably the bolded. It's unfortunate when politicians pull ploys like this. I'd have more respect for his position if he didn't have to lie (or at least be intellectually dishonest) to make his point.

... yet you seem to partake of the same kind of hyperbole.

Why the smoke and mirrors? At the end of the day one extra set of doors and 'restrictions' on turning left don't make for all that different of a transit reality than good ol' Queen Street streetcars. The right of way is different to some existing streetcar routes, granted, but still poses several real concerns, i.e. taking up a lane of traffic, coming to a stop at interstections, problems with left turns etc. We've already seen this on St. Clair.

People haven't waited all this time and do not want to spend all this money on second rate solutions that will prove inadequate in the long run. Most people realize that the time for a basic subway network has come, eventually to be complimented by further streetcar lines. This is not a single-modal solution situation. Pretty obvious really.

 

[Torontovibe]

Ford may try to keep expenses down, however, he cannot control outside prices. Be it the price of road salt, fuel, asphalt, concrete, electricity, insurance, etc. Would he pass those prices down? Or would he have go into deficit to absorb outside price increases? Remember, 2008, when the price of asphalt doubled until the recession hit.

Maybe Ford can pay for those things out of his own pocket, like he does office expenses. The man is richer than god, those expenses are just peanuts to him.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

If Rob Ford is elected tomorrow, I'm going to have an immediate concern for WaterfrontToronto (particularly the Queens Quay redevelopment), the Nathan Philips Square revitalization and the Eglinton Crosstown project.

I'm going to work with my councillor to fight against the Ford administration to ensure these move forward as planned.

Remember it's not a crosstown route.

 

[Torontovibe]

We don't walk, we run you over.

Better still, force everyone walking and biking into the PATH so we don't even have to see the scum.

People who walk are scum?

 

[Asterix]

... yet you seem to partake of the same kind of hyperbole.
At the end of the day one extra set of doors and 'restrictions' on turning left don't make for all that different of a transit reality than good ol' Queen Street streetcars. The right of way is different to some existing streetcar routes, granted, but still poses several real concerns, i.e. taking up a lane of traffic, coming to a stop at interstections, problems with left turns etc. We've already seen this on St. Clair.

New streetcars (both TC and legacy replacements) will also be low floor, making access, even through just one door, a lot quicker and efficient (think of subway boardings).

Eglinton LRT running on the surface won't have to deal with left turns. Look at the plans.

With respect to 'taking up a lane of traffic', how about looking at the overall number of people moved on the street? Are you moving more people in that lane taken over by the street car carrying upwards of 50 or more people or by that lane being given to single passenger cars?

St Clair in its completed state is actually running quite well, attracting greater ridership with greater reliability than before the ROW. The actual construction project was hampered by a lawsuit, by the city deciding to throw in a whole pile of other non-streetcar related streetscaping work and by poor coordination between various agencies. This is a problem of project management not of the fundamental concept.

People haven't waited all this time and do not want to spend all this money on second rate solutions that will prove inadequate in the long run. Most people realize that the time for a basic subway network has come, eventually to be complimented by further streetcar lines. This is not a single-modal solution situation. Pretty obvious really.

I'd personally love more subways, with the DRL as the number one priority. But I'm also not about to advocate throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars already spent and committed to main TC lines like Sheppard and Eglinton when the result will likely be nothing at all built.

 

[picard102]

How long till he can get rid of the car tax? I have to renew in November, but I'm thinking I can hold off if he get's it done by January.