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typezed said:
If there are questions that should be asked, about connections to a murder or references to courts or constant lies to the public, let them be asked, no matter the tactical considerations. This is unknown territory, and we don't know how will play out. Best to take the high ground of seeking truth and maintaining standards.
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You may be right, and I hope you are. These are questions needing answers. I've just sat through too many Council meetings under this administration to believe that there will be any answers tomorrow.

RoFo is incapable of responding to easy, basic questions, let alone the tough ones that demand answers. Did you follow the LRT/subway debate? The guy couldn't give a straight answer on what his own proposal was, or even what an "LRT" is. While I wish that he could be held to account by asking the right questions, I believe that's like expecting a three year-old why he snuck a cookie when he was told not to. In his mind, he didn't mean to do it, but he just couldn't help himself, and he's a good guy, so how dare you. If someone expects justice from that exchange, then I commend the optimism, but I'm just not convinced.
 
juniorfox said:
Towhey is hard to read. I can't tell if he's genuinely sorry for some of what he supported as Ford's chief of staff or if it's all some weird false flag operation...
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Just a dirtbag who's been trying to play both sides for months. That wasn't my first impression but it sure is now---he's been very good at using dry humour and heartfelt statements of support to ex-Ford office colleagues to make it seem like he kept some kind of ironic distance from the circus. But he made it happen as much as anybody else, and I'll be very interested to read transcripts of his police interviews.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Towhey is right in that probably a lot of councillors will use tomorrow as an opportunity to campaign and, if they're anti-Ford, establish their bona fides. But he's wrong in that if Ford won't answer questions at his house or his office or even in council then NO ONE is holding him to account. Council has every right to do so, especially given the motion they're being asked to support.

I think someone up-thread mentioned Mulcair and the way he hammers Harper and that is what is needed. Matlow might be the best at that; maintain an even keel, ask simple questions that MUST be answered. Don't get caught in rhetorical games, don't let him start talking about how he's the best mayor ever....Ask him "Why are you meeting with Sandro Lisi during work hours?" "What is he giving you in those photographs?" etc.

Anyone who starts getting hysterical or overtly partisan will get shot down. It shouldn't look like a "public flogging" or a campaign speech or any kind of circus. It should like a brilliant cross-examination that tears apart the witness. It won't sway the people in Ford Nation who, as established, will vote for Ford even if he kills someone on the steps of City Hall, but it will give all the sane councillors a chance to take a real stand and if something like 65% of council votes to ask him to take a leave, it isolates him, even if it has no real ability to depose him.
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I like the way you put this, and this is exactly the sort of questioning I'd like to see. Problem is, a cross-examined witness is under oath, and knows there are consequences to being less-than-truthful (implication, contempt charges, etc.). Until either Ford sees the inside of a courtroom, I don't expect any real answers from them.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that people have no right to demand answers; I'm just saying they won't get them here, and the process of asking may be more detrimental than helpful. It strikes me now that I haven't offered an alternate solution, these words all come with the
 
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SFO said:
Just a dirtbag who's been trying to play both sides for months. That wasn't my first impression but it sure is now---he's been very good at using dry humour and heartfelt statements of support to ex-Ford office colleagues to make it seem like he kept some kind of ironic distance from the circus. But he made it happen as much as anybody else, and I'll be very interested to read transcripts of his police interviews.
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Yeah but that's why (and granted this is Alex Jones territory and more a fun thought experiment than an actual belief) a tiny part of me wonders if this is all part of some strategist's (like Kouvalis or Towhey himself) plan to have someone out there ostensibly estranged from the Ford administration tossing out reasonable sounding crap like "smart councillors won't ask questions" in an attempt to sway the more malleable on council (and there are several of these) into keeping their mouths shut when really they should do anything but.

Yes, even while typing it I know how ridiculously convoluted that all sounds, but sometimes it's fun to indulge in conspiracy theories. In actuality you're almost certainly right - he's a still-Ford-supporting dirtbag trying to distance himself enough from the trainwreck that he doesn't wind up completely soaked in Ford's entrails when the big shoes start to drop.
 
juniorfox said:
Yeah but that's why (and granted this is Alex Jones territory and more a fun thought experiment than an actual belief) a tiny part of me wonders if this is all part of some strategist's (like Kouvalis or Towhey himself) plan to have someone out there ostensibly estranged from the Ford administration tossing out reasonable sounding crap like "smart councillors won't ask questions" in an attempt to sway the more malleable on council (and there are several of these) into keeping their mouths shut when really they should do anything but.

Yes, even while typing it I know how ridiculously convoluted that all sounds, but sometimes it's fun to indulge in conspiracy theories. In actuality you're almost certainly right - he's a still-Ford-supporting dirtbag trying to distance himself enough from the trainwreck that he doesn't wind up completely soaked in Ford's entrails when the big shoes start to drop.
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Oh, I think everything Towhey's said has been very strategic---a little push here, a little pull-back there. Let's not forget he's unemployed and quite possibly toxic in most MOR conservative circles. He's been trying to make himself sound palatable across a wide right-wing spectrum, and maybe he's figured out by now that only a fellow Tea Party type would hire him, so a swing back Ford's way it is.
 
I don't think anyone actually expects Ford to answer any of the important questions tomorrow. People need to see Ford in action he can barely read a prepared speech, so tomorrow he's going to really screw up when he feels he's being attacked.
 
SFO said:
Oh, I think everything Towhey's said has been very strategic---a little push here, a little pull-back there. Let's not forget he's unemployed and quite possibly toxic in most MOR conservative circles. He's been trying to make himself sound palatable across a wide right-wing spectrum, and maybe he's figured out by now that only a fellow Tea Party type would hire him, so a swing back Ford's way it is.
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Oh I just mean his ouster being orchestrated as part of the plan is real truther conspiracy stuff.

I'm not sure he's as toxic as you might think, though. Granted he'll take more heat as more info comes out. But he was still one of the chief architects of one of the most improbable winning municipal election campaigns of all time. He may not be the public face of a campaign any time soon, but I think he'll get plenty of offers to help run campaigns in a strategic role.
 
SFO said:
Oh, I think everything Towhey's said has been very strategic---a little push here, a little pull-back there. Let's not forget he's unemployed and quite possibly toxic in most MOR conservative circles. He's been trying to make himself sound palatable across a wide right-wing spectrum, and maybe he's figured out by now that only a fellow Tea Party type would hire him, so a swing back Ford's way it is.
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Bingo. Towhey is taking care of Towhey. He knew exactly what Ford was doing for the past 2 years, he didn't even have the decency to quit, he got fired by Ford. How pathetic.
 
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pattycakes said:
I don't think anyone actually expects Ford to answer any of the important questions tomorrow. People need to see Ford in action he can barely read a prepared speech, so tomorrow he's going to really screw up when he feels he's being attacked.
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That's exactly why the pressure and heat is needed---to make him stumble, go off script.

The whole "don't do this or that, it'll only solidify his base" thing is so insane to me. So what, he got a few hundred people today at City Hall to buy Rob Ford bobbleheads? A good proportion of them were probably eBay profiteers or just lurid thrillseekers. So there are still wingnuts on comment boards? Yes, and there always will be, and at least some of them are paid to do it. Polls are conducted via landline calls in the middle of the day---can people really not see what the outcome of that will be? Media tracks these people down for soundbites because it makes good TV.

I just feel like the whole Ford Nation thing is SO overblown, and that it's mostly thinking people giving the myth power, out of fear. Yes, we're all terrified that this could go on and on, and who could blame us. But I really suspect that the hardcore, "won't vote for anyone else" contingent is TINY.

These councillors should not be afraid to take him on, to say no to the shitshow.
 
SFO said:
Oh, I think everything Towhey's said has been very strategic---a little push here, a little pull-back there. Let's not forget he's unemployed and quite possibly toxic in most MOR conservative circles. He's been trying to make himself sound palatable across a wide right-wing spectrum, and maybe he's figured out by now that only a fellow Tea Party type would hire him, so a swing back Ford's way it is.
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I agree, having to listen to him on the radio the other day (the other day) was unbearable. He was so clearly trying to have it both ways. I felt the same - that he was jockeying for some future position.
 
The Toronto Sun is finished with Rob, his attitude this week was the final straw.


"His insistence on carrying on business as usual, while challenging the police to arrest him, his executive committee to back him or quit, and for council to “bring it on”, demonstrate he has learned nothing from the events of recent weeks.

Instead of showing genuine humility and contrition after asking the people of Toronto for forgiveness for lying to them, he has responded with arrogance, belligerence and intransigence.

The mind boggles at his insistence on marching in this year’s Santa Claus parade handing out candy canes to children, given the terrible role model he has proven himself to be.

That said, we agree with Ford on one thing. It’s time to move on."


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/12/the-voters-will-judge-rob-ford
 
DD13 said:
I agree, having to listen to him on the radio the other day (the other day) was unbearable. He was so clearly trying to have it both ways. I felt the same - that he was jockeying for some future position.
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Unless the wiretaps reveal Ford participated in a cover-up of the crack video, I am starting to worry that he will escape unscathed:

- If the police are now pursuing "bigger fish", then Ford won't get charged with anything. Keep in mind that the police already know the contents of the wiretaps, and have NOT charged Ford.

- If the wiretaps reveal Ford soliciting drugs, there will be no lasting negative effect. Everyone knows that he smokes drugs, so obviously he is acquiring them somehow.

- The last video is just a re-hash of the drug theme.
 
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