newearthling
Senior Member
Haha I was just going to post the same thing. He has connections in organized crime!
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- Thread starter MetroMan
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Haha I was just going to post the same thing. He has connections in organized crime!
Arg0
New Member
What are the chances that The Star is over hyping the dispute to help sell papers/page views?
kevinsp8
New Member
This makes the Ford Bros. talking points about Blair (most biased Police Chief the world has ever known! C**sucker!) look like they may have had a purpose behind them.
kensingtoncat
New Member
I think it is precisely their job to sell papers and net page views by reporting on matters of public interest.
They may also believe that highlighting this dilemma may increase public pressure for justice to be seen to be done. (n.b. I kinda loathe the Star. Because Lifestyles.)
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Franks2000inchTV
Active Member
Well, I'm off to bed. It's going to be fun waking up to everyone who went to bed early catching up to this.
OSS 117
Senior Member
There is absolutely no reason both sides of this can't be true. Even if Siad and friends were trying to get money from Ford for the video, that doesn't mean that Ford and Lisi weren't also trying to extort the video from Siad. The former shouldn't effect the prosecution of the latter at all.
Although I guess this could be what was meant earlier by the OPP wanting to charge everybody, not just Ford and Lisi. I don't like it though. Mix too many people at cross purposes into this thing and that increases the chances of a judge just going " I don't know who's extorting what from whom anymore. It's like fucking Chinatown. I'm just going to toss the whole thing out to avoid the headache".
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TinyTiny
Active Member
I have expected political shenanigans all along, so I'm not surprised by tonight's story. To me, what is most disheartening is that the story (what I've read so far anyway) implies that TPS was unable to come up with anything more on Ford than his ties to Lisi's extortion. You'd think they would have been on to something bigger if they were knowingly going to let drunk driving slide...
OSS 117
Senior Member
No, they just won't vote at all. Which is fine.
kevinsp8
New Member
Extortion:
346. (1) Every one commits extortion who, without reasonable justification or excuse and with intent to obtain anything, by threats, accusations, menaces or violence induces or attempts to induce any person, whether or not he is the person threatened, accused or menaced or to whom violence is shown, to do anything or cause anything to be done.
Give me the video you made of me or I'll break your legs/bring heat down on Dixon = extortion
Give me $100,000 or I'll expose this video I made of you = extortion
“The mayor is the victim,” said Morris Wednesday. “Remember, he was the one originally (allegedly) being extorted.”
Sounds like 2 alleged victims to me, and thus 2 alleged crimes. I'm sure Mr. Morris isn't suggesting it's OK to commit extortion if the guy you're extorting extorted you first. That is simply not an excuse in the law.
Mind you, it's hard to investigate the alleged Rob-as-victim extortion, if he doesn't file a complaint and cooperate with the police.
Is there a cooperating victim with the other alleged extortion (i.e. the drug dealer who made the video?)
346. (1) Every one commits extortion who, without reasonable justification or excuse and with intent to obtain anything, by threats, accusations, menaces or violence induces or attempts to induce any person, whether or not he is the person threatened, accused or menaced or to whom violence is shown, to do anything or cause anything to be done.
Give me the video you made of me or I'll break your legs/bring heat down on Dixon = extortion
Give me $100,000 or I'll expose this video I made of you = extortion
“The mayor is the victim,” said Morris Wednesday. “Remember, he was the one originally (allegedly) being extorted.”
Sounds like 2 alleged victims to me, and thus 2 alleged crimes. I'm sure Mr. Morris isn't suggesting it's OK to commit extortion if the guy you're extorting extorted you first. That is simply not an excuse in the law.
Mind you, it's hard to investigate the alleged Rob-as-victim extortion, if he doesn't file a complaint and cooperate with the police.
Is there a cooperating victim with the other alleged extortion (i.e. the drug dealer who made the video?)
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kensingtoncat
New Member
Attachments
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betty183
New Member
here's the full Star article: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._rob_ford_and_others_mired_in_squabbling.html
This especially caught my attention:
This especially caught my attention:
Dubster
Active Member
Yep. There is simply no other way to look at this other than to say it's either incompetence or deliberate ignorance of the facts. The OPP is trying to shelve Brazen 2.
whatthe
Active Member
I am officially pissed off.
jusbokeh
Active Member
If you guys want all of this to make sense read this quote carefully.
" I don't throw my friends under the bus"-rob ford
He was not referring to Lisi...
" I don't throw my friends under the bus"-rob ford
He was not referring to Lisi...
basic
Senior Member
Looks like we know what the delay is now. This has Fantino's hands written all over it. So frustrating!!
Brazen 2 probe of Rob Ford and others mired in OPP-Toronto dispute | Toronto Star
The OPP is taking a back-seat role in the Project Brazen 2 probe following a dispute with Toronto police over who was the victim of extortion — the alleged drug dealer who made the video, or Mayor Rob Ford, who is pictured in the video.
Toronto detectives believe the man who made the video and his associate were the victims of an extortive attempt by Ford friend Alexander (Sandro) Lisi and possibly others to retrieve the embarrassing video of Ford smoking crack and making racially charged and homophobic comments.
The Ontario Provincial Police detective who was asked to oversee the case saw it differently, contending that the alleged drug dealer who filmed the one-minute video may have tried to extort money from Ford.
As a result, the much talked-about Project Brazen 2 probe has been mired in dispute over the past two weeks, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation. The disagreement led to the OPP, at least for now, removing itself from the probe.
In a short statement by OPP communications officer Sgt. Pierre Chamberland, the force said Wednesday that “the OPP has determined that there is no role for further investigation because to date there is no new information or evidence that has been provided to the OPP.”
Toronto Police Service spokesman Mark Pugash reported that the Brazen 2 investigation is ongoing. While saying he could not discuss details of the case, he noted that the course of investigation the Toronto detectives took has been validated by Crown attorneys and judges.
“The TPS investigation started more than a year ago, with a group of the most experienced and diligent investigators in Canada. They work very closely with an equally skilled team of Crown prosecutors. The case has been vetted by two judges.
Its comprehensiveness is reinforced every time the courts release documents from the (search warrant documents),” Pugash told the Star.
One month ago, the OPP assumed oversight of the probe at the request of Toronto police Chief Bill Blair, who wanted to distance himself from it after personal attacks on his credibility were made by Ford and his brother, Councillor Doug Ford.
Almost immediately, a difference of opinion arose between detectives at the two forces.
The Toronto police squad’s investigative theory, put forth by Det. Sgt. Gary Giroux, a veteran homicide investigator, has long been that Ford’s friend Lisi used threats to have two men — Mohamed Siad, who filmed the video, and Liban Siyad, a friend — turn over the video so that it would never see the light of day.
Those threats by Lisi were allegedly made in a two-day period beginning May 16, 2013, the day the existence of the video became public. Police have charged Lisi with extortion and drug trafficking and have executed search warrants on phones belonging to Lisi, Ford and others to determine whether anyone conspired with Lisi or whether he acted alone. Senior Crown attorneys have been assisting the Toronto detectives during the probe.
Enter OPP Det. Insp. Chris Nicholas, also a veteran detective. Nicholas, according to two sources who were not authorized to speak publicly about the case, believed that Ford was the victim. His theory was that once the video was made, Siad may have attempted to extort money from Ford in return for handing over the video.
The Star has looked at all information (some public, some still under a publication ban) and found that both theories are possible and are not mutually exclusive.
Under the Toronto police theory, the information that led to their charging Lisi with extortion cannot be publicized because of a publication ban. The Star is fighting that ban in court.
Information that supports part of the OPP theory can be found in wiretap information already released. That information shows that a month after the filming of Ford at 15 Windsor Rd. (a bungalow the police refer to in court documents as a “crack house”) on Feb. 17, 2013, there is chatter on telephone calls about seeking money from Ford.
In one call police secretly recorded, Siad, who filmed the crack video, is involved in a discussion with a friend about a plan to sell the video to Ford. According to the wiretapped recording, Ford had already offered Siad $5,000 and a car for the video, something that Siad said he rejected.
The discussion on March 26 continued with Siad describing his plan to meet Ford “personally” and offer him the video for $150,000.
It is not known whether Siad ever approached Ford or, if he did, whether there was an implied threat that the video would be made public if Ford did not pay.
Less than a week after the March 26 call, Siad’s associate, Mohamed Farah, contacted the Star about the video and eventually offered it for sale. The Star, which saw the video at a meeting with Farah and Siad, did not purchase the video. Nobody knows what happened to the original cellphone video. Police obtained a copy of the video from a computer hard drive seized when Siad was arrested on drug and gun charges.
2One person with knowledge of the dispute said the Toronto detectives, who have pw3resented all of their information to senior Crown attorneys and to a judge (to obtain search warrants), were surprised that the OPP detective so quickly came to the conclusion that Toronto’s theory was wrong.
“Nobody understands how the OPP came up with this. The Toronto police don’t know where this is coming from,” said a source with knowledge of the Toronto police involvement.
OPP spokesman Chamberland said he could not respond to the Star’s questions about the dispute. “We are not going to get into the weeds about this,” he said.
Meanwhile, the OPP, which has been tasked with numerous high-profile probes, is continuing its investigation of the email deletion scandal at Queen’s Park involving cancelled gas-fired power plants, and is entering its third year of an investigation into the ORNGE air ambulance scandal.
As to OPP involvement in the Ford-related probe, Chamberland said “if additional investigation is required, then the OPP may assume a major case management role, if asked to do so.” He said the OPP was to be involved only if “new investigative information” came into the hands of the Toronto police, and he said none has been provided.
Brazen 2 probe of Rob Ford and others mired in OPP-Toronto dispute | Toronto Star
The OPP is taking a back-seat role in the Project Brazen 2 probe following a dispute with Toronto police over who was the victim of extortion — the alleged drug dealer who made the video, or Mayor Rob Ford, who is pictured in the video.
Toronto detectives believe the man who made the video and his associate were the victims of an extortive attempt by Ford friend Alexander (Sandro) Lisi and possibly others to retrieve the embarrassing video of Ford smoking crack and making racially charged and homophobic comments.
The Ontario Provincial Police detective who was asked to oversee the case saw it differently, contending that the alleged drug dealer who filmed the one-minute video may have tried to extort money from Ford.
As a result, the much talked-about Project Brazen 2 probe has been mired in dispute over the past two weeks, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation. The disagreement led to the OPP, at least for now, removing itself from the probe.
In a short statement by OPP communications officer Sgt. Pierre Chamberland, the force said Wednesday that “the OPP has determined that there is no role for further investigation because to date there is no new information or evidence that has been provided to the OPP.”
Toronto Police Service spokesman Mark Pugash reported that the Brazen 2 investigation is ongoing. While saying he could not discuss details of the case, he noted that the course of investigation the Toronto detectives took has been validated by Crown attorneys and judges.
“The TPS investigation started more than a year ago, with a group of the most experienced and diligent investigators in Canada. They work very closely with an equally skilled team of Crown prosecutors. The case has been vetted by two judges.
Its comprehensiveness is reinforced every time the courts release documents from the (search warrant documents),” Pugash told the Star.
One month ago, the OPP assumed oversight of the probe at the request of Toronto police Chief Bill Blair, who wanted to distance himself from it after personal attacks on his credibility were made by Ford and his brother, Councillor Doug Ford.
Almost immediately, a difference of opinion arose between detectives at the two forces.
The Toronto police squad’s investigative theory, put forth by Det. Sgt. Gary Giroux, a veteran homicide investigator, has long been that Ford’s friend Lisi used threats to have two men — Mohamed Siad, who filmed the video, and Liban Siyad, a friend — turn over the video so that it would never see the light of day.
Those threats by Lisi were allegedly made in a two-day period beginning May 16, 2013, the day the existence of the video became public. Police have charged Lisi with extortion and drug trafficking and have executed search warrants on phones belonging to Lisi, Ford and others to determine whether anyone conspired with Lisi or whether he acted alone. Senior Crown attorneys have been assisting the Toronto detectives during the probe.
Enter OPP Det. Insp. Chris Nicholas, also a veteran detective. Nicholas, according to two sources who were not authorized to speak publicly about the case, believed that Ford was the victim. His theory was that once the video was made, Siad may have attempted to extort money from Ford in return for handing over the video.
The Star has looked at all information (some public, some still under a publication ban) and found that both theories are possible and are not mutually exclusive.
Under the Toronto police theory, the information that led to their charging Lisi with extortion cannot be publicized because of a publication ban. The Star is fighting that ban in court.
Information that supports part of the OPP theory can be found in wiretap information already released. That information shows that a month after the filming of Ford at 15 Windsor Rd. (a bungalow the police refer to in court documents as a “crack house”) on Feb. 17, 2013, there is chatter on telephone calls about seeking money from Ford.
In one call police secretly recorded, Siad, who filmed the crack video, is involved in a discussion with a friend about a plan to sell the video to Ford. According to the wiretapped recording, Ford had already offered Siad $5,000 and a car for the video, something that Siad said he rejected.
The discussion on March 26 continued with Siad describing his plan to meet Ford “personally” and offer him the video for $150,000.
It is not known whether Siad ever approached Ford or, if he did, whether there was an implied threat that the video would be made public if Ford did not pay.
Less than a week after the March 26 call, Siad’s associate, Mohamed Farah, contacted the Star about the video and eventually offered it for sale. The Star, which saw the video at a meeting with Farah and Siad, did not purchase the video. Nobody knows what happened to the original cellphone video. Police obtained a copy of the video from a computer hard drive seized when Siad was arrested on drug and gun charges.
2One person with knowledge of the dispute said the Toronto detectives, who have pw3resented all of their information to senior Crown attorneys and to a judge (to obtain search warrants), were surprised that the OPP detective so quickly came to the conclusion that Toronto’s theory was wrong.
“Nobody understands how the OPP came up with this. The Toronto police don’t know where this is coming from,” said a source with knowledge of the Toronto police involvement.
OPP spokesman Chamberland said he could not respond to the Star’s questions about the dispute. “We are not going to get into the weeds about this,” he said.
Meanwhile, the OPP, which has been tasked with numerous high-profile probes, is continuing its investigation of the email deletion scandal at Queen’s Park involving cancelled gas-fired power plants, and is entering its third year of an investigation into the ORNGE air ambulance scandal.
As to OPP involvement in the Ford-related probe, Chamberland said “if additional investigation is required, then the OPP may assume a major case management role, if asked to do so.” He said the OPP was to be involved only if “new investigative information” came into the hands of the Toronto police, and he said none has been provided.
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