[nfitz]

I've heard time and time again that what went wrong on St. Clair was the tactics of certain locals to prevent the ROW upgrade from going forward altogether, throwing the multi-phase project off schedule.

There were many factors. The NIMBYs who launched the lawsuit and the corrupt judge were just one issue.

The attempt to have multiple agencies each hiring their own contractors to work together at the same time was also a huge factor.

Also, for some reason, certain sections of St. Clair still have a thick black wire running along one side of the road. Hopefully, removing it will be one of those final touches that are yet to be done.

What type of wire? Where? I haven't spotted this - though I don't tend to get too far from Yonge.

 

[pman]

That's what went wrong on St. Clair - they tried to do it at the same time. Doesn't work ... adds extra costs to both projects while they try to co-ordinate. Cheaper to just let each do their own thing if/when they are good and ready. If really want to do all get hydro, gas, water, sewer, storm, etc. all to do their projects for 5 years or so before the road/track work starts.

But how is it other cities manage to bury the wires as a matter of course? For example, NYC, Chicago, DC, Montreal, London (England), Paris, Melbourne and Sydney all bury the wires on main streets. I understand St. Clair was a massive screw up, but surely that's an argument for reorganizing the way we do things so that we're more like every other first world city on the planet, rather than simply accepting that we're Toronto and our municipal government is incapable of learning from its own mistakes or adopting the better practices of other cities.

 

[nfitz]

Montreal bury it's wires??? As if ... they did some back in the 1960s ... and precious little since then, which is why they were hurt so badly in the ice storm.

The cheapest way to bury the wires, is to simply do it as a stand-alone project - the same way that we do gas main replacement. The reason it hasn't been done, is that no one has pushed for it. It's nothing to do with co-ordination. You only have to walk around London to start seeing the number of trenches that have been cut in roads and filled back in again!

I'm sure Toronto IS capable of learning from it's mistakes ... which is why we now know not to have different agencies contracting different companies to work at the same location at the same time.

Though the $75 million cost for 7 km of LRT isn't really that bad. Only $11 million per kilometre. Ford will be spending at least that much to cancel Transit City - and he'll get nothing for that! Although the St. Clair cost was a bit higher than it should have been - the real problem was the delays.

 

[pman]

Montreal bury it's wires??? As if ... they did some back in the 1960s ... and precious little since then, which is why they were hurt so badly in the ice storm.

The cheapest way to bury the wires, is to simply do it as a stand-alone project - the same way that we do gas main replacement. The reason it hasn't been done, is that no one has pushed for it. It's nothing to do with co-ordination. You only have to walk around London to start seeing the number of trenches that have been cut in roads and filled back in again!

I'm sure Toronto IS capable of learning from it's mistakes ... which is why we now know not to have different agencies contracting different companies to work at the same location at the same time.

Though the $75 million cost for 7 km of LRT isn't really that bad. Only $11 million per kilometre. Ford will be spending at least that much to cancel Transit City - and he'll get nothing for that! Although the St. Clair cost was a bit higher than it should have been - the real problem was the delays.

Montreal does bury its wires on main streets. I know because I lived there for 18 months. They were hurt by the ice storm because the towers collapsed along the high voltage lines in the country, and because Montreal residential neighbourhoods have some overhead wires, though these are mostly along lanes and not strung above the streets themselves. But even secondary main streets like Van Horne have buried wires.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And now Montréal is now in the process of planning and building (or returning to) tramways.

For a Google translation of their website click on this link.

 

[spider]

The cheapest way to bury the wires, is to simply do it as a stand-alone project - the same way that we do gas main replacement. The reason it hasn't been done, is that no one has pushed for it. It's nothing to do with co-ordination.

What a delightfully simple solution! Don't concern yourself with all those other bothersome utilities, if there are conflicts we'll just cut them off or crush them, no problem.

Replacing a Gas main is not comparable to burying Hydro infrastructure for the first time. The Gas main is already located in a position it has occupied for up to 125 years whereas burying Hydro for the first time requires establishing a ROW acceptable to all the other utilities that have every right to be there.

 

[drum118]

There were many factors. The NIMBYs who launched the lawsuit and the corrupt judge were just one issue.

The attempt to have multiple agencies each hiring their own contractors to work together at the same time was also a huge factor.

What type of wire? Where? I haven't spotted this - though I don't tend to get too far from Yonge.

The black wire is in many sections and have the photos to prove it. Was told they were supposed to be removed once TTC started running service and still are there today. Most are on the northside west of Bathurst and Old Weston Rd. It looks like either Rogers or Bell, but was told a few years ago, it was TTC wire. Who Knows??

Time to send this into the Fixer and lets see what answer they get. It should come down, as the whole idea was to put all wiring underground in the first place.

Getting Toronto various departments on the same page for the same project is still a nightmare today. Until these department start working as a team, things will take longer and cost more to do in the long run. Everyone loose.

SOS was the biggest problem for St Clair Mess and it was a very small group in the first place. The Judge didn't help it either. They still keep their hands in this mess as well for other parts of the city these days to help kill TC.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The rain in Roncesvalles falls mainly on the construction plain.

While concrete is better if it stays moist, the rain may also wash it away. I expect delays.

(BTW. Roncesvalles Avenue was named after a village and locality in Spain.)

 

[junctionist]

What type of wire? Where? I haven't spotted this - though I don't tend to get too far from Yonge.

It's a distinctive black wire hung from the street lights along parts of St. Clair, notably on the north side of St. Clair around Old Weston Road, where it leads to a hydro substation just west of that intersection. It droops almost onto the ornamental sidewalk lighting there.

Montreal has done a good job getting rid of overhead wires since it started doing so early in the twentieth century. There's a great article about their efforts here. From the old city to suburban boulevards, streets free of overhead wires are the norm, even on numerous side streets. It's still a city with some overhead wires, but typically in obscure places, and not to the point of being a huge eyesore that few people even notice the heritage buildings along its streets. Coupled with attractive lighting fixtures in many highly visible areas and the low mounted black traffic signals, the streetscapes look cleaner and one's focus naturally goes to the businesses and buildings, which are (as in Toronto) often interesting and attractive.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Hahaha....I dont know where they get this info from, but this is Crazy shite....What a fantasy The ZigZag line.
Project:
proposed construction of the Downtown Relief Line a subway line likely beginning at Dundas West station, travel underneath Roncesvalles/Dundas West towards Liberty Village. From there, it would travel east alongside Queen Street West to Union Station. It would then continue east along the rail corridor, then head north towards Pape station. Fourteen stations are proposed, including connections with Union Station and Pape Station. The route is subject to change.

http://dcnonl.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?...aa22a6719c5e&projectid=9120837&region=ontario

 

[DSCToronto]

It's a distinctive black wire hung from the street lights along parts of St. Clair, notably on the north side of St. Clair around Old Weston Road, where it leads to a hydro substation just west of that intersection. It droops almost onto the ornamental sidewalk lighting there.

Montreal has done a good job getting rid of overhead wires since it started doing so early in the twentieth century. There's a great article about their efforts here. From the old city to suburban boulevards, streets free of overhead wires are the norm, even on numerous side streets. It's still a city with some overhead wires, but typically in obscure places, and not to the point of being a huge eyesore that few people even notice the heritage buildings along its streets. Coupled with attractive lighting fixtures in many highly visible areas and the low mounted black traffic signals, the streetscapes look cleaner and one's focus naturally goes to the businesses and buildings, which are (as in Toronto) often interesting and attractive.

The big difference in Montreal is the existence of Commission des services électriques de Montréal (CSEM). They own almost all the under-street conduits and the phone, cable and electric companies rents space from them. There is a good commercial reason for them to have more conduits and to expand as much as possible. With fewer players there is also less of a problem with coordination. Another reason Montreal has been far more active in burying wires is freezing rain - it brings down wires quite easily and is far more common in Montreal.

 

[jje1000]

Hahaha....I dont know where they get this info from, but this is Crazy shite....What a fantasy The ZigZag line.
Project:
proposed construction of the Downtown Relief Line a subway line likely beginning at Dundas West station, travel underneath Roncesvalles/Dundas West towards Liberty Village. From there, it would travel east alongside Queen Street West to Union Station. It would then continue east along the rail corridor, then head north towards Pape station. Fourteen stations are proposed, including connections with Union Station and Pape Station. The route is subject to change.

http://dcnonl.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?...aa22a6719c5e&projectid=9120837&region=ontario

Good to hear some news about the DRL.

 

[BMO]

Hahaha....I dont know where they get this info from, but this is Crazy shite....What a fantasy The ZigZag line.
Project:
proposed construction of the Downtown Relief Line a subway line likely beginning at Dundas West station, travel underneath Roncesvalles/Dundas West towards Liberty Village. From there, it would travel east alongside Queen Street West to Union Station. It would then continue east along the rail corridor, then head north towards Pape station. Fourteen stations are proposed, including connections with Union Station and Pape Station. The route is subject to change.

http://dcnonl.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?...aa22a6719c5e&projectid=9120837&region=ontario

Cool stuff, that's an interesting alignment. I wonder how it'll go about shifting from queen west up to Union.

 

[drum118]

I was up on St Clair on Monday and forgot to get an update photos of that cable on the northside.

Was down on Roncesvalles last week and saw 4 people working there. 3/4 of one long block was still missing pavers.

One of 2 men was removing pavers in another block while the 2nd was having a drink with some ppl and watching this guy pulling up the pavers.

50% of the trees were planted on the east side with a crew digging up the holes to plant more.

A fair number of the platforms and shelters are incomplete.

Hydro has yet to replace the overhead wires on the west side as well removing the old poles.

There was a notices on one of the new trees stating it was damage by a cycles clamping their bike to it that wasn't a day old. Even Bloor St new trees have the same problem as well the flower bed on Dundas between Bay and Yonge.

A few bike rings have been installed.

None of the planters have seen any planting so far.

I noticed one block for some reason has a valley in the middle of it and will be a nice skating area in the winter.

Most blocks still needs some kind of work for the paver especially where the gas line connection are as well hydro caps.

June 1

 

[jje1000]

Why don't they install some of those tree cages around the trunk?