[St. Even]

At the end of the day, religion is a personal choice that MUST be respected in a democracy. But we must, in a pluralist society, treat all faiths and religions the same.

One of my issues with religious presence in government institutions is that so much doctrine is antithetical to the inclusivity of a modern democracy. Jews believe they are chosen ones and Jehovah's believe they are only ones going to heaven.

And I can't reconcile in my head that our Charter says women and men are equal but the Catholic Church is a few centuries away from hiring women as preachers. That's blatant discrimination, plain and simple. But we allow it. To me that's just wrong.

Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms says we are free to choose whichever faith we wish, but it also means we are free not to choose. In my opinion, swearing an oath on a bible in a courtroom, or reciting a prayer before a sitting in Parliament if I'm an MP, impinges directly on my right not to be religious. If my government is forcing me to swear to a god I don't believe in, or forcing me to listen to prayers outside of a religious context, then I believe it is impinging on my rights not to be religious. If I were a Muslim, or Shinto, or Sikh, then I would be more than a bit offended at having to participate in Christian prayers before getting on with my job in the legislature.

All of that said, a lot of people derive great strength from their faith and the communities that form around faith....that's a good thing. But incorporating it into any non-religious context like government or school, and especially giving favourable representation to one faith over another is, in my humble opinion, inherently undemocratic.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

LOL!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-6oOGPJtsjQ

 

[afransen]

Any Quakers in the house?

Anyone else interested in studying religious groups? I am studying the Palatines right now: aka, the German Baptists/Dunkers, Amish, Mennonites, Old Order River Brethern, etc. (They live close to the town where I spent some of my early days: Chambersburg PA

Is one brand of crazy or another worthy of study? I used to find the notion of learning about religions appealing, but I have since realised it's all a bullshit smokescreen for hypocrisy.



As far as I'm concerned, religion belongs in the closet, or at least in the privacy of your home. Didn't Jesus say not to give alms in public, and to pray in secret? What do 'Christians' do? They jump up and down in their Sunday best screaming "Look at me! Look at me!" between cries of 'Praise Jeeez-hus'.

Sorry -- ex-Catholic. Makes you a bit bitter.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

ditto

 

[urbandreamer]

Studying religion is very interesting from a cultural pov. For example, understanding where the Mennonites came from--Palatine/Rhineland Germany--makes one both respect their religion and understand why they (some of them) are so pious and old fashioned.

Now as a child I was exposed to many different religions: From Judaism to Anglicanism to RC-ism to Presbyterianism to Russian Orthodoxism to (gasp) Mennonites! I have been in hundreds of different churches and met hundreds of different diverse cultures. Many people love to make fun of Christians--yet what they often don't understand is the Christians that appear on TV, the Bush-xtians etc are not the only Christians out there. For example, many Mennonite sects refuse to call RC's or even Anglicans "Christians."

Of course I think all religion is a crock of horse**** however it is fun to learn about. Maybe I'm weird but I'm one of the few people who could easily chat with and "understand" a Muslim, a Jew, a Mennonite, an Anglican etc in the lunchroom at my old job. So many immigrants and old-Canadians alike would sit in their own little segregated areas of the cafeteria--Kurds in one corner, Africans in another, Jews at one table, WASP's at another, Cantonese and Mandarin's in another corner etc.... Very sad.

So what am I saying? To understand the diversity that is Canada if one is to avoid being hypocritical shouldn't one be knowledgable about both an ethnic groups culture and religion?

Secular Humanism is, from what I understand, basically a product of the Left with some Secular Judaism tossed into the mix, correct? Essentially, it's so PC it disgusts me!

 

[Hydrogen]

Secular Humanism is, from what I understand, basically a product of the Left with some Secular Judaism tossed into the mix, correct? Essentially, it's so PC it disgusts me!

Humanists are hardly a group that marches in lock-step.


If you are so unsure about your knowledge of a group, how can you honestly maintain your disgust?

 

[urbandreamer]

Well I have studied some religions--for example my father studies religions too--he's devoted over 60 years of his life to the study of various religions however there's some that he simply hasn't had time to study in depth; hence my interest in studying those he missed (Well I'll cover some of the ones he did too.)

Secular Humanism is interesting, and before I slag it completely I must study it further. I shall someday.... I suppose my secular humanism opinions have been shaped by my exposure to the Humanist Party of Canada--perhaps a bit different but the folks involved in that Party seem rather "phony" to me. And many University of Toronto majors kept yapping about it in my student days.... Too much pot smoking for my taste....

I am openminded though, and willing to change.... There is some higher being out there I believe, but not one anyone so far has been able to describe! (I don't think I'm up to the task either.)

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Ritalin is being prescribed in far greater numbers that ever before, not only to hard-core ADHD cases, but also to kids who simply fall within the normal range of those who concentrate as well or worse than others. There is growing evidence that most people benefit from Ritalin, since it helps everyone focus better, and yes, that would be cheating the system.

It's not cheating the sytem if your placing the same expectations of normal students on mentally disabled ones. You could put all these ADHD cases in Special Ed but then you'd be sending the message that they cannot compete with everyone else and are somehow inferior to the non-Ritalin students. In this case there isn't physical/historical context for the distinction, unlike underachieving blacks ignored by the general system, but rather a more easily corrective solution. Biochemical intervention unclouds the murkiness, enhancing sensory perception and response to stimuli. I know of alot of students who actually cheat and they all appear to be average, garden variety non-Ritalins.

School and life isn't always about making sure everyone has an equal start or performance or potential, but is instead about embracing and/or working with our life-given differences. Not, I'm not saying the hard-core ADHD kid should be sentenced to a terrible life, so he needs his meds. But, perhaps that kid who is struggling in math because he can't sit still will become a great musician or sportsman, etc. Look, say my kid and your kid are competing for top honours or university entrances, my kid is sometimes a little scatter brained, but otherwise normal (the perfect Ritalin candidate today). Meanwhile your kid is outperforming my kid in most test scores. So I have my GP prescribe Ritalin, and he then trounces your kid, and gets the prize. Is that fairness?

Not when our life-given differences are used as ammunition for justifying have/have-not, superiority/inferiority social hierarchy. I agree though that the medical profession is seemingly very quick to diagnose what I consider typical male behaviour as hyperactivity hence ADHD. Boys are diagnosed 8 out of 10 times more than girls and problem seems to stem from over-competition and attention-seeking behaviours. When contrasted to timid, introverted girls the boys quick to raise hands even if they know they're incorrect and off-topic are seen as a problem for the whole class' progression and functionality. Ritalin is seen as the easy cure fix, making mellow of once rambunctious personalities. Of course the endocrine system naturally produces mood-altering chemicals for us, but oh well pharmaceuticals/the FDA needs the cash right !?!

As for your sports analogy, if the amputeed kid's artificial leg delivers superior performance than if he'd had a real leg, then yes, that would not be a fair competition. In this case, we'd be using science and technology to win over human limitation, reaching almost the level of the cyborg, generally defined per wiki as an organism (in this case a person) that has enhanced abilities due to technology. How is this different, beyond warm feelings for the kid, than a sprinter who's body will not allow him to win the races, from taking steroids, and then beating everyone who otherwise would've won? This is likely why we have special Olympics for amputees, as their technology in some cases would beat the able-bodied athletes.

Some agility legs aren't humanlike in appearence at all but rather a modified spring that causes propulsion forward. Advantageous in a sprint race yes, but at the cost of self-image and criticism/ridicule from limbed insensitive jerks. Android's more appropo btw as an amputee ain't Robocop or the T-1000, lol.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Some agility legs aren't humanlike in appearence at all but rather a modified spring that causes propulsion forward. Advantageous in a sprint race yes, but at the cost of self-image and criticism/ridicule from limbed insensitive jerks.

I wouldn't worry about self image, especially once you've trounced your able-bodied competition.

In the Second World War, one of Britain's top fighter pilots was Sir Douglas Bader, having lost both legs in a pre-war flying accident, which thus enabled him to turn much tighter high-g turns than his legg'ed German foes. Bader was the fifth highest ace in the RAF in WW2, despite being shot down and captured in 1941 for the duration of the war. Bader turned his physical impairment into an advantage in competition and war, and rarely took any criticism or ridicule.

 

[St. Even]

Is one brand of crazy or another worthy of study? I used to find the notion of learning about religions appealing, but I have since realised it's all a bullshit smokescreen for hypocrisy.

Religion is also very strongly linked with culture, so a better understanding of religion also means a better understanding of culture in many cases and the benefits of understanding other cultures and learning from them are, man that's a long list.

Whatever validity we give to religion, we can't disregard that it is a strong force and to ignore it is folly. Folly, I say.

 

[JasonParis]

Whatever validity we give to religion, we can't disregard that it is a strong force and to ignore it is folly. Folly, I say.

Well said!

 

[Hydrogen]

Whatever validity we give to religion, we can't disregard that it is a strong force and to ignore it is folly. Folly, I say.

Same with the wide array of humanist thinking and the knowledge derived from such an approach. Many religious leaders and followers will have to either live with the fact that humanism has transformed our understanding of the world (and transformed many of the presuppositions of their religious beliefs), or continue with their reactionary approach to it with all the inherent dangers that could possibly result.

 

[Mongo]

Whatever validity we give to religion, we can't disregard that it is a strong force and to ignore it is folly. Folly, I say.

Just as people living on flood plains need to be aware of what a flood can do, and people living on the Gulf coast need to be aware of hurricanes and their effects.

Yes, by all means be aware of religion as a powerful force that is flouted at your own risk, but power does not equal right.

 

[afransen]

Perhaps I shold say that I have had 12 or so years of religious study. I know the Bible, christianity and catholicism better than most believers. I've also studied various world religions. They are as interesting to study from the mythological or cultural perspective, but as philosophy, it is fairly boring/unreadable.

Perhaps if I hadn't studied religion to the extent I already have, I'd have more interest in it.

 

[adma]

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