shivyyz
New Member
Some people think its better to build when needed which causes more delays and technical issues and others like myself believe its better to be pre emptive about it cause lets face it, the core is running out of room and its about time we had some new population centers.And why should we built a subway on Sheppard East now that will be under-used for decades when we could build the DRL or Yonge north extension. DRL phase 1, 2 and 3 would all be much better used and much more urgent than a subway on Sheppard East.
Why should we build a subway on Sheppard which will be relatively empty for decades, vs one near King st downtown which will be very well used immediately and relieve the overcrowded streetcars?
There are so many subway routes I would put ahead of Sheppard East.
In what possible way do subways last exponentially longer? Which exponent? 2? So streetcar track lasts 20 years and subway track lasts 400 years?
I think we've seen on the Yonge subway, the tunnel segments north of Eglinton opened only 40 years ago, how well that's going.
Subways still require maintenance. As do the large stations. How much does annual maintenance costs on Leslie station compared to a surface stop? Even basics like cleaning! And then there's these expectations about having staff in stations.
It's a massive waste of money. There may be a case of extending it a bit further to Victoria Park, to get it past the bottleneck at the 404 (same reason a Danforth subway should cross to Sheppard instead stopping it at Scarborough Centre). But the ridership estimates once you hit Scarborough, east of Victoria Park are abysmal.
There's a better case in the west, because a relatively short line provides connection to the Spadina line, and most importantly, connectivity into Wilson yard. But the estimated ridership to the west is still pathetic, lower than the existing piece between Yonge and Don Mills.
And yet there's been relatively little development on Danforth between Yonge and Woodbine in the 50 years since that line started construction. Sure there would be some, but that was factored into the future estimated ridership, that was so low.
No, it's 4 cars.
It's amusing that the graphic you are using is from the Ford campaign. I'm not sure that provides much credibility to the idea!
Though connecting Sheppard to Danforth is interesting. Though I think further up the thread, or in another I suggest the same. And in the west I suggested connecting the existing Spadina line to the Sheppard line through Downsview and down Sheppard West.
One subway line for the entire city. However, I was being humorous!
More than an exponent of 2. Once the initial tunneling is complete the city wont have to worry about upgrading it for 100+ years. Like I said in another reply in this post, I believe the price we pay for the subway now will be less than waiting till its a few years overdue. I prefer a subway but it would be nice to see something finally happen in that area as its a huge void on our transit maps. If the LRT is not as hot as expected passengers will ultimately end up paying with time which in most instances is worth more than money.
I went to Tory and Chows sites but they didnt have a map that I could use to highlight my example. Notice my cropping work to try and avoid making this a political debate? Sarah Thomson had a useable map but meh.
I cant find the video but was it off or on peak?Properly designed LRTs tend to have similar stop spacing to a subway, and signal priority to minimize red lights, if not eliminate them. The SELRT will have the latter, but not the former. While these lines will not be streetcars, they definitely are not as rapid as I believe they should be. Still, try taking the Viva Purple from Bayview to Montgomery (just east of Woodbine) to get an idea of how the SELRT will run. Reviewing the video I recorded, it took about 11 minutes to go 4.6km, or an average speed of 25.1km/h. Not too shabby.
Elevated lines could work aslong as locals dont start crying about noise as is the case with many NIMBYists. I live near the end of the 97 bus on the street it turns off of from Yonge. Found out that the blue night bus doesnt use the same route because some crotchety old people opposed it. Heaven forbid they here a vehicle passing through every 20 minutes.Although I personally like elevated transit lines: I like the view, I like that you can see the trains and that it's fully grade separated.
I think that many here:
A. Under estimate the cost
B. Over estimate how much people would like it.
It would be a similar situation politically as the Scarborough LRT (which was an elevated line) vs Scarborough subway (danforth ext). The costs will be something like $2.5 billion and subway $3 billion (making these numbers up), and politicians will say "why build elevated when for only 500 million you could have underground".
Other Ford-like politicians will say "Why does downtown get underground transit while Scarborough gets above ground. Downtowners will be in heated comfy stations while Scarborough people freeze their butts off outside".
Also: "world class cities build subways underground". Even though yes, London, NYC, Chicago and Paris all have elevated lines. You know they will say that.
The other thing is, no politician is proposing elevated trains. Maybe if the Eglinton part of SmartTrack happens, it could be elevated, I would be fine with that.