[Paleo]

Such shameless pandering.

 

[TOareaFan]

Such shameless pandering.

The worst part of this is that, as far as I know, the Liberals are still the government. Yes, the legislature is not sitting but they are still running the day to day affairs of the province. So, if they wanted, they could order this thing shut down. That, however, would not serve the master that they are really listening to....that is, the greed/need for power (not electricity).....so rather than the Liberals coming out and saying "stop building this now....we are cancelling it." They, instead say "re-elect us and we will stop this". I have been following politics for a long time and this is the saddest example of "Do anything for power" that I can recall.....interestingly, I had nearly decided to vote Liberal in this election....this has me re-thinking it.

So, the people in this riding have "used" the media and the campaign to get their NIMBY wishes adhered to....and get a big "rightbackatchya" from the people who have the ability, right now, to stop this plant.....they are using them right back to get their way.....karma really is a female dog!

Meanwhile, the people building it get to ramp/run up as many expenditures as they can between now and cancellation safe in the knowledege they will get their money back!

 

[TOareaFan]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ing-gas-fired-power-plants-could-cost-1b?bn=1

Interesting that the Liberal party is ready/willing/able to inform the people in this riding that they will spend whatever it takes so that they do not have to house this powerplant in an industrial area of the riding in time for it to influence their vote but are equally unwilling/unready/unable to advise whatever community it is being moved to in time for them to make the same level of informed decision.

As a voter in another riding, I felt compelled to write this email to the Liberal candidate in my riding:

As election day is approaching, I have been struggling, personally, with the big “who gets my vote” decision that so many of us in Ontario are. In the interest of “full disclosure”, I am, traditionally, a conservative/right leaning sort of guy. Not, however, to the point of being closed/single minded and, certainly, not a “card carrying Conservative”. I did come into this campaign considering my vote fully “up for grabs” between the Liberal Party and the Progressive Conservative Party.

Over the last few days, however, it has become increasingly clear to me that I will be voting Progressive Conservative and it is, to a very large extent, through the handling of the Greenfield South power plant.

When announcing that, if re-elected, construction of the plant would be halted (not sure why it could not be halted now rather than allow 2 more weeks – or more – of construction to take place) it was noted that the plant would be relocated rather than built in the industrial area that it is currently slated for, and under construction in. Today’s Toronto Star confirms this by quoting Mr. McGuinty after he was questioned about the potential $1B price tag for cancelling the two politically sensitive gas plants (this one and one in Oakville earlier which, also, was in an industrial area beside the Ford plant). Mr. McGuinty, apparently, questions the price tag by, again, noting that the plant will not be cancelled outright but, rather, re-located to another location.

The point of writing this, I guess, is to tell you how I as a voter in Brampton are interpreting this sequence of events. I have no doubt that both of these cancellations/re-location(s) were politically (ie. vote) motivated and that winning these ridings is very important to Mr. McGuinty. I also do not doubt the $1B figure as the cost if both were cancelled. I also don’t doubt that, at least, one of these plants will be built somewhere else if the Liberal Party is successful in the upcoming election (thereby reducing….not eliminating…..the $1B price tag). What I don’t know, is which riding/area/city/town will now get the re-located plant(s). In the absence of knowing (or being told) I have to assume that all ridings (excepting these 2 “important” ridings) are candidate locations for the plant. Further, since one of the points of the smaller, gas fired, plants is to reduce, both, emissions and transmission costs and since both cancelled/postponed/to-be-relocated plants were situate in western GTA ridings….areas/ridings in the western GTA have higher odds of “winning” the lottery for any plant re-locations.

So, in the absence of any further information, I am left to conclude one of two things:

1. Mr. McGuinty and the Liberal Party are willing to spend a lot of money (possibly as high as a Billion dollars) of Ontario taxpayer money to satisfy the voters of Mississauga South (and neighbouring ridings) and Oakville; and/or
2. Mr. McGuinty and the Liberal Party are willing to locate undesirable land uses and electricity generation to other ridings (potentially mine) to satisfy complaints/voters in other ridings.

Whichever of these are true, it does not provide me with much incentive/encouragement to mark my ballot next to your name. If it is number 1, I have to wonder what that same $1B could do in the City of Brampton to ease our long term issues with totally inadequate health care and transportation infrastructure (neither of which seem to be much of a real hard issue in this election). If it is number 2, I have to wonder why this sort of land use is ok for the folks living in the area that “wins” the relocated plant (again, potentially Brampton) but not ok for the folks in South Mississauga/Etobicoke or the folks in Oakville.

I have never been a politician so I don’t know how much post-election vote analysis occurs (I suspect the amount is totally relative to the outcome) but, in the event there is discussion after October 6 about “where the votes went” you could add mine to the cost of re-locating that/those power plant(s).

Best regards.

In essence, I guess, I believe that buying votes in one/two ridings should have a cost....and not just a dollar cost. In this case, it has cost this current cabinet member a potential vote.

 

[Filip]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ing-gas-fired-power-plants-could-cost-1b?bn=1

Interesting that the Liberal party is ready/willing/able to inform the people in this riding that they will spend whatever it takes so that they do not have to house this powerplant in an industrial area of the riding in time for it to influence their vote but are equally unwilling/unready/unable to advise whatever community it is being moved to in time for them to make the same level of informed decision.

As a voter in another riding, I felt compelled to write this email to the Liberal candidate in my riding:



In essence, I guess, I believe that buying votes in one/two ridings should have a cost....and not just a dollar cost. In this case, it has cost this current cabinet member a potential vote.

I received a robo-call from Hudak saying that McGuinty is lying that the power plant has been cancelled and construction continues. Also to vote for him if we want to see it cancelled.

I guess no matter who wins this plant is toast.

 

[TOareaFan]

I received a robo-call from Hudak saying that McGuinty is lying that the power plant has been cancelled and construction continues. Also to vote for him if we want to see it cancelled.

I guess no matter who wins this plant is toast.

I think the discernable difference is that Hudak is not saying that this same plant will be built elsewhere. All we know from Mr. McGuinty is that two ridings (Oakville and Mississauga South) have his guarantee that they will not house this plant. The other 105 ridings have to wait until after the election and the official cancellation of this one to know if they are the "lucky" winner of the "Gas Plant for Life" lottery. In denying the $1B cost of cancellation he has been clear...it ain't cancelled...just moved and can't/won't tell where it is moving to.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What a mess, but I do have to ask - if there is a need then why shouldn't this plant be built somewhere? I don't think either McGunity or Hudak came out as a saint in this case; the first for dithering, and the second for promising what isn't wise to deliver. Neither are the epitome of good governance. Beyond that point, not that power plants are a particularly desirable land use - but I am rather curious to know the personal emissions level of the residents in the area. Somehow I suspect they wouldn't think twice about using gas powered lawmowers, barbecues, heaters or the automobile, without a second thought on the impact on the environment.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

What a mess, but I do have to ask - if there is a need then why shouldn't this plant be built somewhere? I don't think either McGunity or Hudak came out as a saint in this case; the first for dithering, and the second for promising what isn't wise to deliver. Neither are the epitome of good governance. Beyond that point, not that power plants are a particularly desirable land use - but I am rather curious to know the personal emissions level of the residents in the area. Somehow I suspect they wouldn't think twice about using gas powered lawmowers, barbecues, heaters or the automobile, without a second thought on the impact on the environment.

AoD

I think it should be built somewhere.....I think they were building it (and the one cancelled earlier in Oakville) in appropriate, industrial, areas close to where consumption occurs. I believe there were lengthy reviews/reports/plannings that led to construction commencing and only when a group of angry people who live near the industrial area(s) they were getting built raised a stink (pun not intended) and spoke the language of politics (ie. stop this or lose our votes) did either party consider cancelling it.

IMO McGuinty comes off a bit worse than Hudak on the cancellation because he did not plan/approve it in the first place. The bigger issue with Mr. McGuinty that I have is that he seems perfectly able to give electoral certainty to two ridings with regards to their "hosting" this plant but unable/unwilling to provide anything but questions for the balance of the ridings. It is quite likely that the relocation would happen with a lot less in the way of long term planning/consultation (presuming there is a need for the facility and years has gone by - in the planning of the Mississauga site - since that need was identified and it will have to happen quicker once the new site is identified) making the new "host" community a double loser (IMO).

The point of my note to my MPP was that this is taken (by one voter) as an indication that he values votes in those ridings more than he does my vote and that the cost (again on a one voter small sample size) of pandering to those two ridings is the loss of a potential vote in my riding (which affects that MPP). In other words....caving to NIMBYism in one riding should have a cost in other ridings.

 

[EnviroTO]

I would not be voting Liberal due to this if the parties were the same on every other issue. Unfortunately the parties are not the same on every other issue so I will still vote Liberal.

 

[Dan416]

If anything cancelling this power plant is a reason to vote FOR the Liberals. After housing Lakeview for many, many years, it's nice that the power plants proposed on Mississauga's borders are cancelled/being cancelled.

To me it's inexcusable that Mississauga should have to suffer more for the sake of the GTA. Give the power plant to friggin Vaughan for God's sake. I've never heard of any power plants in York Region. If you want a subway, take a damn power plant for once.

Mississauga already had a power plant in our back yard. It's someone else's turn.

 

[EnviroTO]

There are two nukes in Durham, and one, likely to be two, gas fired generators in Toronto. I don't pretend to believe that being upwind from a hospital is the best place to put one, probably upwind of a large park or farm makes more sense since hospital patients need all the oxygen they can get and plants don't mind the carbon dioxide, but really shouldn't we be banning gas appliances considering they operate indoors. I don't know what this talk of suffering is. Go stand on Leslie street and see how much you suffer.

 

[TOareaFan]

If anything cancelling this power plant is a reason to vote FOR the Liberals. After housing Lakeview for many, many years, it's nice that the power plants proposed on Mississauga's borders are cancelled/being cancelled.

To me it's inexcusable that Mississauga should have to suffer more for the sake of the GTA. Give the power plant to friggin Vaughan for God's sake. I've never heard of any power plants in York Region. If you want a subway, take a damn power plant for once.

Mississauga already had a power plant in our back yard. It's someone else's turn.

Well, I do believe, in the very announcement that said they were killing this plant, the Liberals stated that they were going to go ahead with the power plant in the Holland Marsh (environmentally sensitve land in, ta da, York Region!). I guess the Liberals were saying to the protest groups/residents there "you and your vote are not as important as the people in south Mississauga".

 

[doady]

If anything cancelling this power plant is a reason to vote FOR the Liberals. After housing Lakeview for many, many years, it's nice that the power plants proposed on Mississauga's borders are cancelled/being cancelled.

To me it's inexcusable that Mississauga should have to suffer more for the sake of the GTA. Give the power plant to friggin Vaughan for God's sake. I've never heard of any power plants in York Region. If you want a subway, take a damn power plant for once.

Mississauga already had a power plant in our back yard. It's someone else's turn.

There are probably good reasons to locate the plant in the area in terms of transimission infrastructure. I have no problem with plant in the area, I just want it further away from Dundas and Sherway Gardens. But it is not that big a deal. The capacity of the proposed plant is not that high and it would much cleaner than Lakeview to begin with.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

If anything cancelling this power plant is a reason to vote FOR the Liberals.

Explain to me why it would be a vote for them when they were the ones who proposed and started construction on the plant in the first place, only to now cancel it, potentially costing the province half a billion dollars.

In other words, they're the one's who jumped of the plane in the first place. Nobody pushed them out, only to now be second guessing whether that was a smart decision (but really doing it just for the votes ).

 

[uptown]

Reminds me of the plans to ship Toronto's garbage to Northern Ontario and the actual shipping of Toronto's trash to Michigan that ended recently. Why SHOULDN'T consumers have to live with the emissions and the waste that they cause? Why should it have to be the problem of some small town that consumes the tiniest of fractions of energy that a suburban wasteland does?

In any case, I'm sure within a few months we'll hear "after careful study by the Ministry and OPG, it turns out that we can't cancel this project without incurring massive penalties etc etc" or "we never told you this project was being mothballed permanently" regardless of who forms the next gov't.

 

[Jarrek]

Most of these gas power plants have a good buffer zone around them:

Brampton/Goreway - 1.5 KM buffer zone from nearest residential
Milton/Halton Hills - Mainly around agricultural lands
Toronto/Portlands - 850 meters from nearest home

Not the case with this project:

Mississauga/Greenfield South - 180 meters from a residential community

The area is a mix of industrial/commercial and residential. For example, there are apartment lofts in the Dunwynn Centre, which is located a couple of hundred meters from the site, which I'm sure not many people are aware of.

Nanticoke is a candidate for the re-located plant.

There's also a fully constructed oil power plant near Port Hope at Wesleyville which was NEVER put into service. They should take a look at the costs of retrofitting that plant.

http://wikimapia.org/11640909/Wesleyville-GS-Ontairo-Power-Generation