[nfitz]

And if Wynne says deficit will be eliminated, then Brown won't have to take drastic measures to cancel transit

Harris didn't cancel transit to eliminate the deficit. He cut transit to cut taxes.

Ok Brown is the new saviour to deliver us from the evil Liberals.

But who will save us from the evil Conservatives?

 

[facepalming_brooklynite]

RER is for suburbians

I think this is short-sighted. RER can become a game-changer for travel within the city as well. It can make longer trips within the city faster than driving a car (or taking the subway).

 

[Palma]

I think this is short-sighted. RER can become a game-changer for travel within the city as well. It can make longer trips within the city faster than driving a car (or taking the subway).

Thats true. I might not be alive to see it though - who knows the future of transit with politicians involved

 

[EnviroTO]

They were near the end of their second term before anything started. They have had to sell Hydro One partially to help pay for transit. Without the billions they wasted all this transit could have been built by now. Finch and Sheppard LRT was to be up and running were they not. And one of the reason Crosstown stations did not start construction while tunneling was going on was lack of money and wanting to spread the money out. Thats where the billions would have come in. If not for those scandals I bet they would not be spending all this money on transit. It was the only thing to get people to forget the scandals

The first term of the McGuinty government was spent fixing what Harris had broken (budget issues with municipalities, healthcare, education, etc) but did fund the Spadina York subway extension. The Eglinton Crosstown, Finch LRT, and Sheppard LRT was funded in McGuinty's second term and the only reason that these developments aren't further along is due to the fact Rob Ford got into office and cancelled everything. Sheppard East was on track to open in 2014 with early works started before Rob Ford changed things. In McGuinty's third term two way all day GO service was announced and the Lakeshore GO went to 30 minute service, and many regional projects started. Toronto didn't get as much started during this period because this was the Ford era and Toronto didn't have its act together, but Eglinton Crosstown was restarted after council got parts of Transit City re-approved. So, transit has always been a thing for the Liberal government. Scandals have nothing to do with it. Would it be nice if the Liberals had kept their eyes on Ornge more, or had not started a hydro project they would later cancel due to public opposition, yes, but I don't think it is reasonable to think that either (a) the Liberals planned on Ornge being a slush fund for a few people, or (b) that they planned on cancelling the hydro project from the beginning. People don't elect people because of a resume that indicates they can manage large corporations effectively, they get elected because their policies align with what the electorate wants to get accomplished. If the goal was to elect based on resumes alone McGuinty and Ford both would never have gotten elected, and Tory would have been premier. But McGuinty was elected because of policies, Ford was elected based on representing the common man and a fight against gravy trains (still not sure what those were), and Tory wasn't elected because of education funding policy.

 

[kEiThZ]

@EnviroTO

That's quite the apology for the Liberals. They've been power for 14 years. Blaming Harris doesn't carry much weight anymore.

And they really haven't delivered much actual transit that I can use. Nor will they have done so by election time. If they were smart, they'd go full bore on GO RER. Would at least give them something to show that's tangible other than a construction project.

There public doesn't care about construction projects. It's one more thing to drive around. They want to see service. That's what gets votes.

 

[Forgotten]

@EnviroTO

That's quite the apology for the Liberals. They've been power for 14 years. Blaming Harris doesn't carry much weight anymore.

And they really haven't delivered much actual transit that I can use. Nor will they have done so by election time. If they were smart, they'd go full bore on GO RER. Would at least give them something to show that's tangible other than a construction project.

There public doesn't care about construction projects. It's one more thing to drive around. They want to see service. That's what gets votes.

They will have delivered about as much as Tory will have by 2018 but you're still going to vote for him.

 

[Adjei]

@EnviroTO

That's quite the apology for the Liberals. They've been power for 14 years. Blaming Harris doesn't carry much weight anymore.

And they really haven't delivered much actual transit that I can use. Nor will they have done so by election time. If they were smart, they'd go full bore on GO RER. Would at least give them something to show that's tangible other than a construction project.

There public doesn't care about construction projects. It's one more thing to drive around. They want to see service. That's what gets votes.

Seeing as how it can take 10 plus years for subway and lrts to be planned and built in Toronto, even if they had started planning and constructing transit projects from 2003, how many would we expect to be built. Go and ask Tory if he still expects Smart Track to be finished in 7 years.

 

[1overcosc]

@EnviroTO

That's quite the apology for the Liberals. They've been power for 14 years. Blaming Harris doesn't carry much weight anymore.

And they really haven't delivered much actual transit that I can use. Nor will they have done so by election time. If they were smart, they'd go full bore on GO RER. Would at least give them something to show that's tangible other than a construction project.

There public doesn't care about construction projects. It's one more thing to drive around. They want to see service. That's what gets votes.

The cynic in me says the Liberals have deliberately planned it such that the completion of much of this wave of transit projects depends on their re-election in 2018; as a way to keep milking the "don't-vote-for-the-PCs-because-they'll-destroy-everything!" mantra one more time.

This is a forum on transit so this is OT, but the Liberals have quite an impressive record in other areas of governmental concern. Namely, the environment and education.

Wynne has only been in power 3 years yet her administration has advanced a huge number of things in such a short time. Cap and trade, the ORPP, overhaul & improvement of the child services system, the new tuition grant, etc. There are many valid criticisms one can make of the Wynne government, but "not doing anything" is not one of them.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Seeing as how it can take 10 plus years for subway and lrts to be planned and built in Toronto, even if they had started planning and constructing transit projects from 2003, how many would we expect to be built. Go and ask Tory if he still expects Smart Track to be finished in 7 years.

TYSSE had little opposition, all 3 levels of gov't on board, and that took 15 years to complete.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

well with Hudak no but with Brown i bet yes. The Crosstown is safe and Finch LRT will be also. Its the RER and SmartTrack that might be problematic but again RER is for suburbians so he will not cancel those. And if Wynne says deficit will be eliminated, then Brown won't have to take drastic measures to cancel transit

It is the funding for the Relief Line that we should be worrying about.

That's quite the apology for the Liberals. They've been power for 14 years. Blaming Harris doesn't carry much weight anymore.

Blaming Mike Harris will always carry weight.

 

[Adjei]

TYSSE had little opposition, all 3 levels of gov't on board, and that took 15 years to complete.

The Sheppard subway for example was proposed as far back as the 80s and it only opened in 2002.

When the Liberals came in 2003, transit wasn't really at the forefront like how it is now. There were other concerns at that time which were getting more focus. Places like Mississauga, Brampton, York Region didn't even have reliable bus service. Now you have things like BRT like Zum and Viva operating Brampton and York Region. We now have proposals for LRT in Mississauga, Hamilton, subways to York Region etc. People are more concerned about reliable transit being built. There are more places demanding rapid transit and not just Toronto like how it was before. We have LRT being built in Ottawa, Kitchener, and even now we have a proposal in London. Transit is getting built. It just takes time. Also with all the flipflopping from Toronto no wonder why there have been so many delays.

 

[salsa]

The Eglinton Crosstown, Finch LRT, and Sheppard LRT was funded in McGuinty's second term and the only reason that these developments aren't further along is due to the fact Rob Ford got into office and cancelled everything. Sheppard East was on track to open in 2014 with early works started before Rob Ford changed things.

No, Rob Ford is not the only reason that happened. Not by a long shot. David Miller secured $12 billion in funding for Transit City from the provincial government which would have funded the entirety of Finch, Sheppard, Eglinton Crosstown, and SRT replacement + extension to Malvern. Aside from Eglinton, all of this was to be completed in time for the Pan Am games. Then in 2010 McGuinty cut $4B out of the Transit City budget. The Crosstown was scaled back to Mt Dennis, the Finch LRT no longer goes to Yonge, the Malvern SRT station was cancelled, and the Sheppard LRT was shortened to Morningside. But more importantly, the funding cuts also postponed the construction timelines for a few years, just long enough for Ford to get elected.

So then when Ford became mayor, he declared Transit City dead on his first day of office. There was no vote from council, he had no authority to do this unilaterally, but spineless McGuinty obeyed him anyway. People can blame Ford all they want, but Dalton McGuinty is the person who deserves the most credit for the unravelling of Transit City. From the moment he cut the budget, postponed and scaled back the original plans, it all went downhill from there.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/03/26/miller_outraged_as_budget_sideswipes_gta_transit.html

 

[crs1026]

No, Rob Ford is not the only reason that happened. Not by a long shot. David Miller secured $12 billion in funding for Transit City from the provincial government which would have funded the entirety of Finch, Sheppard, Eglinton Crosstown, and SRT replacement + extension to Malvern. Aside from Eglinton, all of this was to be completed in time for the Pan Am games. Then in 2010 McGuinty cut $4B out of the Transit City budget.

So then when Ford became mayor, he declared Transit City dead on his first day of office. There was no vote from council, he had no authority to do this unilaterally, but spineless McGuinty obeyed him anyway. People can blame Ford all they want, but Dalton McGuinty is the person who deserves the most credit for the unravelling of Transit City. From the moment he cut the budget, postponed and scaled back the original plans, it all went downhill from there.

I am no fan of either McGuinty or Wynne, but on the transit file I have some sympathy for anyone at Queens Park who had to figure out the lay of the land. Remember that the province's role is to support municipal planning, not override it.

Miller's Transit City is revered by many here on UT, but when it was rolled out it was a very novel idea that was not preceded by public demands and was neither widely understood or studied. So for the Province, it was a political risk that came out of the blue and would have demanded caution and skepticism.

Then, just when everyone seemed to be getting on board, the Ford circus arrived. After that, the reversals in the plan and the coups d'etat by Council, it would be hard for QP to figure out where and how to plug in. I do fault Dalton for then cutting budgets on parts of the plan that seemed to be cast in stone.

I can't blame Metrolinx for rolling its eyes at the whole mess and going their own way. However, now that things have normalised a bit, ML needs to get onside with the City and forge closer partnerships.

Would it have been worse with the PC's? Absolutely. Their reluctance to spend money would havre kept many things off the table altogether. It was only in the most recent election campaign that Harper swallowed hard and acknowledged transit as a priority. Provincially, the PC's strength still lies in the small towns where transit is irrelevant.

- Paul

 

[Palma]

Then, just when everyone seemed to be getting on board, the Ford circus arrived. After that, the reversals in the plan and the coups d'etat by Council, it would be hard for QP to figure out where and how to plug in. I do fault Dalton for then cutting budgets on parts of the plan that seemed to be cast in stone.

I can't blame Metrolinx for rolling its eyes at the whole mess and going their own way. However, now that things have normalised a bit, ML needs to get onside with the City and forge closer partnerships.

Would it have been worse with the PC's? Absolutely. Their reluctance to spend money would havre kept many things off the table altogether. It was only in the most recent election campaign that Harper swallowed hard and acknowledged transit as a priority. Provincially, the PC's strength still lies in the small towns where transit is irrelevant.

- Paul

Are you completely ignoring what salsa said about the Liberals cutting $4B in 2010 and all transit projects scaled back? Do you pick and choose and choose to blame Ford? Really?

 

[EnviroTO]

And they really haven't delivered much actual transit that I can use. Nor will they have done so by election time. If they were smart, they'd go full bore on GO RER. Would at least give them something to show that's tangible other than a construction project.

All day GO, 30 minute service, UP Express, York Subway, MiWay BRT, York BRT, new/rebuilt GO stations all over the place, Kitchener LRT, Ottawa LRT, likely GO service enhancements into Niagara region will all be here by 2018. It really is significant when compared to any government before it. At the same point they will be able to point at Eglinton Crosstown, Finch LRT, Mississauga LRT, Hamilton LRT, RER, and electrification as construction projects.