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- Thread starter SimonP
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Interesting - I didn't go that far back. It certainly hasn't been in every proposal since however, as the 2001 RTES only had the single station at West Mall/Queensway Don't you know anything?Don't you know anything?Straight out of Network 2011 and every proposal recommendation since...
Were there volume estimates for Network 2011?
Wow ... and only 700 in the peak hour (I expect much of the Sherway traffic isn't peak hour ...).
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nfitz
Superstar
However, it only cost $15-million per kilometre, even with all the overruns.
If had been done "properly" I expect the answer would have been it wouldn't have been done at all. But in the end we do have something better than it was before, and costing a lot less than a Transit-City style LRT. At Transit City prices, this would have cost $400-million instead of $100-million.
I'd quite happily see a few more half-assed jobs at that price!
Fresh Start
Banned
Dude, fuck RTES 2001! Why were people talking all hot and bothered all of two years ago about doing a one-stop extension to East Mall on the Honeydale property if East Mall's so skippable? You don't run a 3-km long subway that much of a distance with zero stops en route, particularly not when Dundas/East Mall is apart of an urban growth centre. That's retarded.
And lots of existing stations have poorer peak hour performance than that and yet those stations exist. How fortunate are we that people 50-60 years ago even in the midst of their own financial/political problems weren't so shortsighted as to miss the opportunity to build mass transit and watch density and transit oriented development around the stations grow.
And lots of existing stations have poorer peak hour performance than that and yet those stations exist. How fortunate are we that people 50-60 years ago even in the midst of their own financial/political problems weren't so shortsighted as to miss the opportunity to build mass transit and watch density and transit oriented development around the stations grow.
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nfitz
Superstar
Fuck?
I haven't been discussing East Mall - as I noted above, that may be reasonable. It's the Sherway extension that doesn't make sense.
That was however, the most recent proposal; I neither advocate for or against it. Extending to East Mall might make a lot more sense - and why not then? It's that last 1.7 km from East Mall to West Mall that doesn't make sense. That's only a bit shorter than the 2.0 km distance from Steeles West station to Vaughan Metropolitan Town City Centre station! And much has been written about that, which has a higher demand than Sherway!
Fresh Start
Banned
Pardon my lingua franca, your Rudeness.
If you're going to go through all the trouble of extending one stop over, why not extend to Sherway in one shot? The added expense of starting ROW construction, stopping it then starting again in 15 years lapse (those little things called inflation and raise of pay) vs. taking advantage of the opportunity to build on already offerable donated lands (Honeydale), at-grade along already transit-used lands (CPR, Highway 27 and their enbankments), with a terminal at an underused parking space around North Queen/Queensway that doesn't involve mass expropriation from Cadillac Fairview; is probably something the city cannot afford to miss out on. To wit, it's the only subway construction we could undertake this decade that doesn't involve billion$, only million$ depending on the level of extravagance the TTC resorts to.
2,300 ppdph which includes the 5 stations leading up to it, 3 of which would have major feeder and walk-in traffic. Big whoop. Just off the top of my head I can think of around twenty bus routes that could feed into Sherway Gdns; plus the hospital, endless shopping, lots of office space, the Lakeshore gateway factor and ample room to grow. I'm not saying that Sherway would be a top-preformer, but it would certainly match and out-do several existing stops and locations; even ones within Etobicoke.
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nfitz
Superstar
My rudeness! How dare you! Your the one making comments like "Don't you know anything? " and "fuck RTES 2001"
Wow ... your really going to defend building a subway for a predicted damnd of 700 riders an hour. Smitherman estimated this would cost $1-billion ... and I'd think that looking at the Network 2011 alignment, more than half of it would be from East Mall to Sherway given that is where it would not be along the railway alignment.
Fresh Start
Banned
I can't see the TTC building the East Mall extension and it costing under $500 million. > $500 million to shave 3 minutes off one's bus commute is dumb planning. At least when they did one-stop extensions in the past like to Kennedy or Downsview, a significant distance was covered and new corridor(s) and neighbourhoods penetrated.
Circular, remedial arguments tend to make me grumpy.
nfitz
Superstar
Uh ... the Kennedy/Kipling extensions were a single project. Your telling me the 1.5 km extension to Kipling was a significant distance, but the 1.8 km extension from Kipling to East Mall isn't? 2.1 km to Downsview is significant, but 1.8 km isn't?
Dude ... really?
Fresh Start
Banned
You missed my point entirely. If you're taking a line from Warden/St Clair to Kennedy/Eglinton or from Wilson/Allen Exwy to Sheppard/Dufferin, then you're making a major leap. Land usages change, the routes affected change, adjacent nodes/density clusters change, everything changes. Given the number of routes feeding into Kipling/Islington stemming from west of these locales (a majority of which use Dundas to get to the nearest subway), you're only splitting hairs to have the buses left people off marginally earlier at the East Mall instead. Running the line to Sherway serves an entirely different set of commuters because its on an entirely new corridor; plus lies within close proximity of the Gardiner, QEW and 427; literally a bus-only off-ramp away from providing highway-based BRT commuters ready, direct access to the subway.
SimonP
Active Member
The Toronto Star has published a run down on each candidate's transit plan. Looking just at the funding here is how much each plans to spend and where it will come from:
Smitherman: $17 billion (source unknown)
Thomson: $14 billion (some from road tolls)
Rossi:$8 to $12 billion (some from selling Toronto Hydro)
Pantalone: $8.5 billion (Transit City funding)
Ford: ? (wants subways but hasn't yet indicated where, how many, or how to pay for them)
Smitherman: $17 billion (source unknown)
Thomson: $14 billion (some from road tolls)
Rossi:$8 to $12 billion (some from selling Toronto Hydro)
Pantalone: $8.5 billion (Transit City funding)
Ford: ? (wants subways but hasn't yet indicated where, how many, or how to pay for them)
Dan416
Senior Member
See RTES Exhibit ES-14. West Mall (aka Sherway) is listed as a "Proposed Station"; East Mall is listed as a "Potential Future Station".
I think it makes sense to just build them both at the same time, considering how far behind Toronto is Rapid Transit Expansion.
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nfitz
Superstar
I apologise, it's very easy to miss a moving goalpost.
nfitz
Superstar
Yes ... the same way Willowdale is a potential future station. That doesn't mean we count it. I'm not sure what your point here is; it wasn't factored into the RTES volume calculations. And has no relevance to the post you quoted, which is questioning why a 1.8 km extension from Kipling to East Mall is not a significant distance, when 1.5 km extensions and 2.1 km extensions are.
Dan416
Senior Member
You want your hand held, fine. Here is the post you needed referenced since you couldn't figure out on your own which post I was referring to. So let me try again.
See RTES Exhibit ES-14. West Mall (aka Sherway) is listed as a "Proposed Station"; East Mall is listed as a "Potential Future Station".
I think it makes sense to just build them both at the same time, considering how far behind Toronto is Rapid Transit Expansion.