[Urban Shocker]

I'm eBaying my LCBO bags next year.

 

[Chuck]

I haven't had a need for plastic grocery bags for years. I line my garbage bin with 4L milk bags or cereal bags, and have found that clear plastic fruit and vegetable bags can be reused for months when used for dry produce like apples.

 

[TKTKTK]

You were always paying for the bags. It's not in the markup anymore. Grocery prices are intensely competitive.

No actually it's STILL in the markup, but now it's also in an extra tariff. But I'm sure we're all glad to be part of the fight to improve Loblaws' checkout counters.

What bothers me about this isn't the idea of reducing plastic bag use, it's just the cynical and horrible way we're going about it. What a bleak opinion of society if the only way to influence behaviour is through nickle and diming.

 

[Dilla]

What bothers me about this isn't the idea of reducing plastic bag use, it's just the cynical and horrible way we're going about it. What a bleak opinion of society if the only way to influence behaviour is through nickle and diming.

From reading your posts i wouldn't accuse you of having the sunniest outlook on society yourself.

Not being funny here, but how would you go about influencing this behaviour in a manner as effective as the $0.05 charge seems to be?

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Exactly--a voluntary charge wouldn't work, because the customer would reply "I'm volunteering you to pay it." This charge is a pain for people on both sides of the counter, but this is all that will work.

 

[TKTKTK]

From reading your posts i wouldn't accuse you of having the sunniest outlook on society yourself.

Not being funny here, but how would you go about influencing this behaviour in a manner as effective as the $0.05 charge seems to be?

Well, people started modifying their behaviour before the fee was put in place — before it was even voted into law. You CAN influence people's behaviour through costs and through the marketplace, my general take is that commerce is pervasive and controlling enough without also actively harnessing it for social control. Nevermind that we just don't need more taxes, even well intended ones.

 

[Archivist]

TK, so I can conclude then, that you would do nothing and hope for the best. Thanks for sharing.

 

[TKTKTK]

TK, so I can conclude then, that you would do nothing and hope for the best. Thanks for sharing.

Based on what?

Did you miss all the media hype and public education that went on leading up to the free bag ban? Do you only learn about things if you're first charged 5cents? How do we, as a society, tackle other major issues? A 5cent tariff of course!

 

[Archivist]

TK, it is a fact, not a matter of opinion, that a 5c bag levee will seriously diminish the use of plastic bags, and nothing else will. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken.

And using words like "social control", "pervasive" for a 5c bag levee - you're sure you're not a 89 year old retired army general, because you're thinking is so often ... dated. Yes, "dated" is the right word.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I wonder if 4c would have had the same effect?

 

[Redroom Studios]

the problem is that only a small percentage of the the population is concerned as well as disciplined enough to act on their own initiative. So many people are just so busy with work and kids etc that they dont even pay attention to environmental or social issues until it affects them directly. The simple 5 cent charge is what plays that role in this case.

I am fine with the charge (I happen to be wreckless with money - thats what its for!) I am just so slow to adjust to this new procedure but I have always used old grocery bags for indoor litter bins and cat litter anyway. I just find it remarkable that after 2+ months of the new bag policy I cant seem to remember about it until I get to the check out counter!

Personally, I have been very environmentally aware ever since the blue bin program started many years ago. For green bins in Niagara we are now supposed to use the brown biodegradable bags which I gladly do. My extra twist on the green bin stuff is that during the week, I keep the brown bag and its contents in my freezer so that I dont have any issues with odours from rotting food or insects. On recycling day I simply take the frozen brown bag and put it out in the green bin. Unless its 90'+ outside the contents never melt by the time the green bin is picked up and so the inside of my bin stays clean too!

 

[TKTKTK]

TK, it is a fact, not a matter of opinion, that a 5c bag levee will seriously diminish the use of plastic bags, and nothing else will. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken.

Then why were people already reducing their plastic bag use before the Tariff? Was it retroactively applied?

And using words like "social control", "pervasive" for a 5c bag levee - you're sure you're not a 89 year old retired army general, because you're thinking is so often ... dated. Yes, "dated" is the right word.

*shrug* I hardly see how resisting punitive taxation is dated, but whatever floats your junk.

Is this all because you can't actually picture yourself weighing the pros and cons of your lifestyle choices and require the government to enact legislation to remind of you of what's right and wrong? You would argue that commerce isn't pervasive in modern society? You would argue that this isn't social control - or at least social conditioning?

No, you wouldn't argue any of those things - you just want to argue 'cause it's me. Lame. Transparent and lame.

 

[Dilla]

*shrug*

You would argue that this isn't social control - or at least social conditioning?

Every law is. What's your point?

 

[Redroom Studios]

nice one, TK might wanna look up the meaning of touche! social conditioning has existed since the beginning of time... social conditioning became just as pervasive as commerce in the 20th century. The only difference is that more often these days the social agenda is coming from the bottom up rather than from governments or corporations, a pleasant change if you ask me. More and more, people are actually a driving force for change for their own good, rather than simply pawns in the global power game.

 

[TKTKTK]

*shrug*

Every law is. What's your point?

I think you need to go back and read how that exchange unfolded. Archivist was trying to suggest that I must be an 89 year old retired army general (as opposed to...who is Archivist?) because I pointed out that it's an example of social conditioning and social control. I appreciate that you agree with me - though I'm uncertain why you felt your agreement was something you should try and throw in my face.

The only difference is that more often these days the social agenda is coming from the bottom up rather than from governments or corporations, a pleasant change if you ask me. More and more, people are actually a driving force for change for their own good, rather than simply pawns in the global power game.

If this is true (and I think it is) then why are you supporting punitive taxation? This is an example of "change" being handed down by governments and corporations, rather than people being the driving force for their own change (which is what I would argue was naturally going on before the fee was voted in).

By lying down and agreeing with this nonsense you send the message that this IS how the social agenda ought to be addressed: from the top down through fees and force.