[emphurent]

Docs are up: Development Documents

Architect: Core Architects

Calling for 6 towers between 15 and 35 floors, completed in 3 phases.

Phase 1:

Phase 2:

 

[smably]

I'm glad that something is happening on this extremely underused lot, but I hope it comes with some local transportation improvements. Keele is a miserable street to walk or bike on, and it's not much better as a transit rider. Imagine sharing this bus stop with people from 1800+ other units:

 

[interchange42]

I'm glad that something is happening on this extremely underused lot, but I hope it comes with some local transportation improvements. Keele is a miserable street to walk or bike on, and it's not much better as a transit rider. Imagine sharing this bus stop with people from 1800+ other units:
View attachment 336184

No doubt the Transportation Study (haven't read it yet) will argue that the local road system when combined with the new GO station at St Clair will be able to handle the extra traffic that will be created by this plan…

…and while I normally put stock in those studies, I just cannot see how this one could be argued without serious fudging some projections re: modal share.

I'm thinking that the only way to make traffic work in this area again would actually be to remove private vehicular access under the rail corridor: make Keele under the bridge seen in that pic TTC only, and force those who clog that road now to consider other routes and ultimately other modes of getting around this area. Keele is just about the worst, most chronically clogged street in the West End and only drastic action will make any difference here.

42

 

[innsertnamehere]

the solution to a clogged road is to ban cars on it? I suspect that would only make other streets equally clogged.

The St. Clair West Transportation improvements should help a fair bit in this area, it should cut down the traffic on Keele and give this development an alternate route to go north via Old Weston Rd and then the Davenport Rd extension.

Unfortunately the main outstanding problem is Dundas and Keele, which isn't an easy fix. given the physical limitations, Left turn lanes at that intersection would make a massive difference, but unfortunately there isn't really the space, especially southbound where it is needed the most. What they should do is ban southbound left turns at Dundas on Keele and force vehicles to make that move via Annette, where a left turn lane can be accommodated, then add a northbound left turn by taking out the adjacent parking lot and turn it into a park.

This project should really be looking at paying to add left turn lanes at Keele & Junction Road to try and limit this development's impact, or at least look at pulling back the retaining wall on the west side of Keele to make a larger bus waiting area.

 

[vic]

No doubt the Transportation Study (haven't read it yet) will argue that the local road system when combined with the new GO station at St Clair will be able to handle the extra traffic that will be created by this plan…

…and while I normally put stock in those studies, I just cannot see how this one could be argued without serious fudging some projections re: modal share.

I'm thinking that the only way to make traffic work in this area again would actually be to remove private vehicular access under the rail corridor: make Keele under the bridge seen in that pic TTC only, and force those who clog that road now to consider other routes and ultimately other modes of getting around this area. Keele is just about the worst, most chronically clogged street in the West End and only drastic action will make any difference here.

42

I love the idea of making that part of Keele transit-only to force (some) people to other modes, but holy moly there's no way that would ever happen. There aren't any other crossings of the CP corridor between Runnymede and Symington (Osler doesn't really count).

Maybe they could do similar to what's happening just north of here on St. Clair: widen the underpass. Dedicated transit lanes, "regular" lanes, bike lanes, and widened sidewalks. Need to grab some adjacent land though.

While we're at it.... Let's bring back an Old Weston Rd. bridge. Pedestrians, cyclists, and railfans only though.

 

[interchange42]

the solution to a clogged road is to ban cars on it? I suspect that would only make other streets equally clogged.

The St. Clair West Transportation improvements should help a fair bit in this area, it should cut down the traffic on Keele and give this development an alternate route to go north via Old Weston Rd and then the Davenport Rd extension.

Unfortunately the main outstanding problem is Dundas and Keele, which isn't an easy fix. given the physical limitations, Left turn lanes at that intersection would make a massive difference, but unfortunately there isn't really the space, especially southbound where it is needed the most. What they should do is ban southbound left turns at Dundas on Keele and force vehicles to make that move via Annette, where a left turn lane can be accommodated.

This project should really be looking at paying to add left turn lanes at Keele & Junction Road to try and limit this development's impact.

Not heard of induced demand and its converse? The Embarcadero Freeway was taken down in San Francisco, and traffic in the area became impossibly snarled! Oh, no, wait a minute, it didn't: take away some pavement, and people adjust, not necessarily only through driving on other roads, but by finding other ways of getting around. This area needs a major modal shift to transit, so transit needs to be improved significantly. Closing Keele under the rail corridor to private vehicles would bring down traffic on Keele, allowing buses to travel it far quicker, making transit more appealing, and likely resulting in far more frequent buses, further enhancing transit's appeal here. Something drastic will be needed here, and this should be considered.

42

 

[interchange42]

I love the idea of making that part of Keele transit-only to force (some) people to other modes, but holy moly there's no way that would ever happen. There aren't any other crossings of the CP corridor between Runnymede and Symington (Osler doesn't really count).

Maybe they could do similar to what's happening just north of here on St. Clair: widen the underpass. Dedicated transit lanes, "regular" lanes, bike lanes, and widened sidewalks. Need to grab some adjacent land though.

While we're at it.... Let's bring back an Old Weston Rd. bridge. Pedestrians, cyclists, and railfans only though.

I like the idea of bringing back the Old Weston Road bridge for pedestrians, cyclists, and railfans, but I would also add transit there. A bus running from this area to Dundas West station via a reconstituted Old Weston Road bridge might do the de-clogging trick…

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[innsertnamehere]

Regarding Dundas and Keele, from the TIS:

Dundas Street West / Keele Street
The intersection of Dundas Street West / Keele Street is signalized and operates with a cycle length of 100 seconds during the AM and PM peak periods.
Under existing conditions, the intersection operates at overall v/c ratios of 0.61 and 0.64 during the AM and PM peak hours respectively. Under future background conditions, the intersection operates at overall v/c ratios of 0.69 and 0.72 during the AM and PM peak hours respectively.
Under future total conditions, the intersection operates at overall v/c ratios of 0.73 and 0.74 during the AM and PM peak hours respectively. Overall, it is expected that traffic associated with the proposed development can be suitably accommodated at this intersection with minimal capacity impacts. Site related impacts to this intersection are approximately 3 to 6%.

Not sure I believe that this operates at 0.61 to 0.64 at peak hour right now.. that's "minor congestion" in LOS speak.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Regarding modal shares, they have assumed 46% transit, 12% walk, 4% cycle, 30% auto, and 8% auto passenger. Given that this is a 5 minute walk from the future St. Clair GO Station, it's probably an aggressive modal share but not impossible.

The project would generate a total of 340 auto trips in the AM peak hour with those modal shares. That's about 1 vehicle every 10 seconds.

 

[Amare]

As per some of the comments that have already been made, there is no way Keele will be able to handle to increase load from this development. The street is already clogged up, and the Keele/Weston buses are some of the worst in the city for reliability and capacity. Not to mention they get caught up in the Keele gridlock. This is why i've been mentioning that a lot of the TOD we've seen being proposed across the city is flawed; it assumes people will be using various GO lines to get places but what it fails to rationalize is that most of these dense developments bring local trips which the road network cannot handle. People tend to access local services, it's not like they enjoy hopping on the train for their groceries, daycare, etc. What the city/province has been assuming is that these people will just magically hop on the train to go anywhere and everywhere.

Just on initial glance, is there no way for Cawthra Ave to be extended under the rail corridor to connect with Indian Grove at the south? It would at least make a bit of a dent on the Keele traffic under the rail corridor.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This area is one of the worst in the city for congestion today but again, it's important to note that the city's St. Clair West TMP improvements will help the area immensely. The extension of Davenport Road over St. Clair and the widening of the St. Clair underpass, paired with the new Gunns Road underpass should help the area massively to distribute traffic.

It won't fix Keele/Dundas as much, but even then I imagine it will help a bit as it will give people more options from coming down from Black Creek Drive. The area will go from 5-6 terrible intersections to just 1-2.

 

[smably]

I like the idea of bringing back the Old Weston Road bridge for pedestrians, cyclists, and railfans, but I would also add transit there.

My modest ask: a tiny extension of the railpath from Lindner to Old Weston. Something like this:

Plus proper sidewalks and bike lanes on both sides of Old Weston.

 

[vic]

My modest ask: a tiny extension of the railpath from Lindner to Old Weston. Something like this:

That would definitely be a nice shortcut. Even better if it could connect all the way to Cariboo.

 

[Towered]

Very nice proposal, but the elephant in the room is the local traffic calamity as others here are rightly mentioning, something which this development does nothing to address. The city can and should flex its muscles here. They can allocate Section 37 funds to punch through an underpass. I also agree with rebuilding the Old Weston bridge - that should be a requirement.

 

[ProjectEnd]

My modest ask: a tiny extension of the railpath from Lindner to Old Weston. Something like this:
View attachment 336197

Plus proper sidewalks and bike lanes on both sides of Old Weston.

Interesting idea, but you'd need to take space from the properties to the east as MacTier is right there.

That would definitely be a nice shortcut. Even better if it could connect all the way to Cariboo.

Without an enormous bridge, that would be next to impossible, unfortunately.