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Thanos said:
I know Torontonians have a ver broad definition of downtown but when i say outside the core i'm still referring to Toronto (ie: the beaches, danforth, west queen west, bloor west, college west and so on).
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Again, numerous neighborhoods in Chicago outside the central loop are comparable to their Toronto counterparts in terms of income and amenities.

The city is not 20 square blocks of downtown surrounded by smoking craters, for heaven's sake.

For example, I personally prefer Cabbagetown to the Near North Side but I am well aware that the latter has a significant stock of historic domestic architecture in excellent condition.
 
Thanos said:
Well it depends on the person. Seattle has one of the best if not the best music scene in the US.
Washington has great historic building and such a rich history, though i still prefer Seattle, heck even Portland over it.
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Seattle's music scene is good for a city of its size - no question - but I don't think it rivals Chicago's. I wouldn't qualify it as 'the best' by any measure. Chicago will simply trump Seattle because it's 3 times the size; the qualities that make Seattle an interesting city are available, in greater volumes, in Chicago.
 
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I read this thread and I think to myself, are these guys talking about the same Chicago I've been to?

Where are these great walking streets and downtown neighbourhoods, besides the Miracle Mile? (give me an intersection) When I was in the Loop, all the restaurants were closed around 7pm. The Museum Campus is not pedestrian friendly at all. There are no stores, restaurants or anything else that makes it pedestrian friendly. It seems to me most of you people saw Chicago by car, while I walked all around Chicago ON FOOT. Trust me, much of that time, I was the only person walking on the sidewalk. Where are these lively, cool, fun areas you speak of? Have you ever walked just a few streets west of Michigan Avenue? It's dead as a door nail because there is nothing interesting there to see, if you're not into sky scrapers. Chicago's interesting parts are concentrated into a few small areas. You cannot walk through a series of interesting neighbourhoods, to go from one side of the city to another, like you can walking along Yonge Street, Bloor Street or Queen Street. When you come to Michigan Ave. & Oak Street, all the retail ends and so do the crowds of people. Even Oak Street, which is a nice, upscale shopping street, was almost deserted, the few times I've walked there.

When it comes to street level vibe, I think Toronto is much more lively and animated. I'm sure we have more than double the amount of people walking on our sidewalks. There is NO street in Chicago that has the amount of pedestrian traffic that Yonge & Dundas has. Where are these crowded pedestrian areas in Chicago? (give me some intersections) We can go to live web cams and easily compare the amount of people on the streets of both cities. A great city is a city that has crowded, lively, animated sidewalks and in that regard, I think Toronto wins that catagory. I just find Toronto is a great place to explore due to the pedestrian experience. Like I've said before, only NYC and Montreal have a better street vibe than Toronto. (In USA/Canada, of course) On some nights, the streets of Montreal feel like one big party. (I love that street vibe) Toronto is developing that lively street vibe at a rapid pace. When Yonge Street construction is finished (all the condos with retail) I think it will take it to a whole other level.

All the cities I love, have a CRAZY street vibe. (London, Paris, New York, Montreal, Hong Kong) It's that frenetic street vibe that makes a city a real "World Class City". If the city feels quiet or sleepy in most of the central areas, it just doesn't cut it with me. That's my biggest complaint about Chicago. It just doesn't feel like a lively, vibrant, interesting city when you explore it's downtown districts. Sure, it's amazing when you look up but not so great when you realize you're all alone on a dark, deserted street. (say Michigan Avenue & Roosevelt Rd. at 8pm)

This is what I'm talking about. (It's Michigan & Roosevelt)

Screen shot 2011-10-11 at 7.37.02 PM by queer_central, on Flickr

And here is a picture of Oak Street, just west of The Magnificent Mile

Screen shot 2011-10-11 at 7.52.05 PM by queer_central, on Flickr
Every time I have been there, the street was less crowded than this Google Street-view pic.
 
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Interesting, and rather depressing, to read Torontovibe's comments - I haven't been in Chicago in 25 years but my reactions to it then were very similar. While I ovedosed on the art museums and late 19th / early 20th century architecture, I found the street culture to be conservative compared to what we had, even then in the mid-1980s.
 
Torontovibe said:
I read this thread and I think to myself, are these guys talking about the same Chicago I've been to?

Where are these great walking streets and downtown neighbourhoods, besides the Miracle Mile? (give me an intersection)
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[

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(c) Hayward, SSP.

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Wicker_Park_Historic_District_B_Chicago_IL.jpg


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^^ You've actually made my point. The buildings look interesting but the street vibe? Look how many people are WALKING along the sidewalks in those pictures? In most of those pictures, very few. Of course, on a really hot, sunny day or a street festival, the streets of all big cities are crowded but on an ordinary, dull day, how crowded are the streets? Even on cold, snowy days in Toronto, many of our core streets are still full of people. I've been to Chicago on cold winter days and warm summer days and I always find the street underwhelming. And yes, I agree with Shocker, it does seem rather conservative. (as well as the people I've met there) You will see very few alternative, funky, whacked-out people, the way you will in Toronto and Montreal. Now some people don'y appreciate the more colourful characters we have on our streets but I think it's quite refreshing. I like non-conformists, who have a creative vibe, so it goes without saying.
 
Torontovibe said:
^^ You've actually made my point. The buildings look interesting but the street vibe? Look how many people are WALKING along the sidewalks in those pictures? In most of those pictures, very few. Of course, on a really hot, sunny day or a street festival, the streets of all big cities are crowded but on an ordinary, dull day, how crowded are the streets? Even on cold, snowy days in Toronto, many of our core streets are still full of people. I've been to Chicago on cold winter days and warm summer days and I always find the street underwhelming. And yes, I agree with Shocker, it does seem rather conservative. (as well as the people I've met there) You will see very few alternative, funky, whacked-out people, the way you will in Toronto and Montreal. Now some people don'y appreciate the more colourful characters we have on our streets but I think it's quite refreshing. I like non-conformists, who have a creative vibe, so it goes without saying.
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You get no argument from me.

Chicago, rather like the CBD of Houston (an amazing collection of flawless mid-century through 1970s works), seems a compelling argument that the more finished, elegant and perfect an urban landscape is, the fewer people want anything to do with it.

To put that another way, compare Yonge Street with Park Avenue in New York and tell me which one looks livelier.
 
Really who cares about we can walk down the streets and I can go into any corner and what not. Toronto has the worst Rapid Transit systems in north america and the worst commute of anywhere on earth.


It takes forever to do anything in this city as well.
 
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