[gabe]

You got me there, it must have been a brain fart. lol Old age does that to one.

Yeah must be old age. You seem to have Chicago confused with a ghost town. Michigan & Roosevelt? Come on! That's like comparing Yonge & Bloor with Front & Parliament!!!! Oak st is made up of high end shops there is no dining, so of course it's not as lively as Rush. Go there on Saturday afternoon you will see all kinds of shoppers.

Another thing stop comparing cities with google street view!!! Really who knows what part of the day these shots were taken, if the google car had of drove down Yonge st on a Sunday morning people also think Toronto is a ghost town!!!

 

[taal]

Right, comments regarding the lack of pedestrians on streets are just desperate ... I guarantee you there are equal pictures of many similar **walkable** streets in Toronto.


I'm familiar with said areas and I'll stick to my original argument about the variety we have here.

I cannot believe anyone would compare Huston to Chicago, not for one second ...

 

[Torontovibe]

Yeah must be old age. You seem to have Chicago confused with a ghost town. Michigan & Roosevelt? Come on! That's like comparing Yonge & Bloor with Front & Parliament!!!! Oak st is made up of high end shops there is no dining, so of course it's not as lively as Rush. Go there on Saturday afternoon you will see all kinds of shoppers.

Another thing stop comparing cities with google street view!!! Really who knows what part of the day these shots were taken, if the google car had of drove down Yonge st on a Sunday morning people also think Toronto is a ghost town!!!

Rush and ? (what intersection are you talking about?

Of course, Google cannot be an accurate account but how better can we judge a typical day in Chicago? I'm judging by the times I've been in Chicago and contrasting them to what I see in Toronto. If I can find a live web cam on a major street in Chicago, I'd use that but right now I just have Google. I think Google is a pretty good way to judge what a city is like. Sure, the weather and day of the week can make a difference but over-all, it still can give you some idea of what a typical days traffic is like. Anyway, I've spent weeks in Chicago and have walked nearly all the major streets, so I know from my own experiences, what a typical day in Chicago is like.

Do you have any better suggestions?

 

[Hipster Duck]

^^ You've actually made my point. The buildings look interesting but the street vibe? Look how many people are WALKING along the sidewalks in those pictures? In most of those pictures, very few. Of course, on a really hot, sunny day or a street festival, the streets of all big cities are crowded but on an ordinary, dull day, how crowded are the streets? Even on cold, snowy days in Toronto, many of our core streets are still full of people. I've been to Chicago on cold winter days and warm summer days and I always find the street underwhelming. And yes, I agree with Shocker, it does seem rather conservative. (as well as the people I've met there) You will see very few alternative, funky, whacked-out people, the way you will in Toronto and Montreal. Now some people don'y appreciate the more colourful characters we have on our streets but I think it's quite refreshing. I like non-conformists, who have a creative vibe, so it goes without saying.

I didn't post those photos so you would go through the banal task of counting the number of people on the sidewalk. I posted those photos because you openly questioned whether there were walkable, urban neighbourhoods in Chicago outside of the Loop and I posted a picture from 3: Pilsen, Wicker Park and Old Town. Whether there are people walking in them at the time those photographs were taken is irrelevant.

And about vibrancy: it is not the be-all, end-all of city life. Taipei is the most "vibrant" city I've ever been to, with its throngs of pedestrians pouring out of every corner, but Taipei is not in the top 10 urban experiences for me because frankly I find it so deficient in so many other areas: it is a cultural backwater (name one Taiwanese cultural export that was not meant for overseas Taiwanese) for one, and its architecture is so cheap, plastic and commercial that it makes Dundas Square look like Piazza San Marco in Venice. Chicago might have fewer pedestrians on its streets relative to Toronto, but it makes up for it with an incredibly rich architectural heritage that extends out past downtown into the surrounding neighbourhoods, and nobody can doubt Chicago's influence on culture.

 

[gabe]

Google. I think Google is a pretty good way to judge what a city is like. Sure, the weather and day of the week can make a difference but over-all, it still can give you some idea of what a typical days traffic is like. Anyway, I've spent weeks in Chicago and have walked nearly all the major streets, so I know from my own experiences, what a typical day in Chicago is like.

Google is a horrible way to judge street life, I had a look at Chicago's st view, looks like it was taken in the winter or early spring on Sunday. Toronto's st view was taken on a nice warm summer day, The crowds and traffic vary depending on the weather and time of year. Both Toronto and Chicago are more desolate during the cold months compared to the summer months. So if Toronto's google street view was taken in July and Chicago's in March it would be an unfair comparison. I have visited Chicago during the summer months, the traffic and crowds were insane on the mag mile.

 

[kkgg7]

You get no argument from me.

Chicago, rather like the CBD of Houston (an amazing collection of flawless mid-century through 1970s works), seems a compelling argument that the more finished, elegant and perfect an urban landscape is, the fewer people want anything to do with it.

To put that another way, compare Yonge Street with Park Avenue in New York and tell me which one looks livelier.

why not 5th Ave or Soho in New York? Park Ave is not really famous for retail, is it? Will you say Yonge St is livelier than 5th Ave? probably not...
Everyone knows Yonge st needs major work. Visit any Chinatown in North America on a Sat afternoon and I am sure many are more livelier than Yonge St, which doesn't mean those Chinatowns are such a huge success.

 

[Torontovibe]

Really who cares about we can walk down the streets and I can go into any corner and what not.

I do, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. The street vibe makes all the difference. Most people prefer to be around other people.

 

[Red October]

Really who cares about we can walk down the streets and I can go into any corner and what not. Toronto has the worst Rapid Transit systems in north america and the worst commute of anywhere on earth.

The commute I agree with, but saying we have the "worst rapid transit system in north america" is just pure hogwash.

 

[Torontovibe]

Google is a horrible way to judge street life, I had a look at Chicago's st view, looks like it was taken in the winter or early spring on Sunday. Toronto's st view was taken on a nice warm summer day, The crowds and traffic vary depending on the weather and time of year. Both Toronto and Chicago are more desolate during the cold months compared to the summer months. So if Toronto's google street view was taken in July and Chicago's in March it would be an unfair comparison. I have visited Chicago during the summer months, the traffic and crowds were insane on the mag mile.

Yes, I agree with you and I've said it before, Michigan Ave is a crowded, lively street. It's the most crowded street in Chicago. I'm talking about the city over-all. I know there are some nice areas to walk in, like Old Town and areas north of the Loop. I'm just saying that I find Toronto a lot more interesting and fun to explore because there are a lot more animated neighbourhoods and a lot more people walking around. When I'm out, I like to be on streets where there is a lot going on, like patios that are full of people and just seeing people enjoying their city.

The good thing about Toronto is you can walk in all directions and you will find lively streets that have enough people and retail, to make the walk enjoyable. (and feel safe) You can go to most of our major, central, tourist attractions and stay on main streets lined with retail and people. You can't do that going from the Art Institute to Shedd Aquarium or the Museum Campus, even though they are right in the same area. It's a very un-pedestrian friendly area to walk in, which is why nobody does. (well, accept for me lol) When I'm in Chicago, I park the car at a suburban subway station and walk everywhere, as well as use the subway. Maybe that's why my pedestrian experiences are different than those who travel everywhere by car. When you walk, you have a whole different experience.

The same goes for Toronto. I live downtown and walk everywhere. I'm an urban guy who likes my cities crowded and lively, which is why I like Toronto. Every new condo that goes up, just adds more retail and more people, so I only expect our streets to get more pedestrian friendly by the day. Pretty soon, I figure there won't be any dead zones in the central core. Chicago just doesn't compare to Toronto in this regard. (I'm not talking architecture here, I'm talking people, stores, sidewalk patios and the urban vibe) And if that vibe is a little quirky and colourful, all the better!

You guys can disagree with me all you like but I'm just telling you what I've experienced the times I've gone to Chicago. If you've experienced something different, that's fine.

 

[nfitz]

Ok. Toronto has the worst commute in the world right now.

Why would you say that? Have you tried commuting around the world. Take Bangkok for example ... Almost all the transit is buses ... buses that don't actually go anywhere because the roads don't move.

I can't for a minute think how you'd say our commute here is worse.

And look at most American cities ... the bus frequencies, even in many major cities, are laughable.

 

[Thanos]

Really who cares about we can walk down the streets and I can go into any corner and what not. Toronto has the worst Rapid Transit systems in north america and the worst commute of anywhere on earth.

Have you ever heard of the 24hr traffic jams in China? Have you ever tried going anywhere in Mexico City?

 

[Tewder]

Yes, I agree with you and I've said it before, Michigan Ave is a crowded, lively street. It's the most crowded street in Chicago. I'm talking about the city over-all. I know there are some nice areas to walk in, like Old Town and areas north of the Loop. I'm just saying that I find Toronto a lot more interesting and fun to explore because there are a lot more animated neighbourhoods and a lot more people walking around. When I'm out, I like to be on streets where there is a lot going on, like patios that are full of people and just seeing people enjoying their city.

Perhaps you just need to acknowledge that as an outsider you don't always know where to go or when. Let's face it, a tourist could walk through any one of Toronto's more dynamic areas at the wrong time and find it less than inspiring.

Similarly, I happen to feel that Toronto has a livlier and more dynamic arts scene than Chicago but this may just be because I am more plugged into it and more knowing. You may prefer Toronto's waterfront or Toronto's neighbourhoods having a more intimate knowledge of them than you do areas in Chicago that might be popular with locals there, a preference that might be completely unfathomable to an outsider to Toronto who may not share the enthusiasm that derives from your more intimate understanding.

The bottom line is I don't share the 'Chicago is more impressive but Toronto is more interesting' argument. The argument as to which is more impressive is fairly obvious and should be acknowledged as so while the argument as to which is more interesting is almost completely subjective and will depend to a large extent on one's personal level of knowledge and one's interests.

I would also add that Toronto is clearly the hands-down winner in terms of potential, which is pretty exciting unto itself.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I'm not convinced we win, morbid Anglo-Gothic horrors being what they are.

I saw that in his monstrous, and early, Liverpool Cathedral, but our sleek little chapel strikes me as the sort of refined late work that some architects build up to and which we're fortunate to have.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

I was starting to believe the whole world loved Chicago, except me. Thx for chiming in with the support, UTers.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

How could you say Toronto is better right now. It's not. Our downtown is lacking. The City is safe but Edmonton is more dangerous and NYC and Montreal are also safer than chicago, so there goes that argument. Toronto has a lacking sport culture outside the leafs and we fail to stand up for the city when people out west bash it. And the vibrancy on the streets is about the same. You cannot go into any corner of Toronto and feel safe, Markham and Lawrence, Finch/Hwy 27, Jamestown, Parkdale, Oakwood Vaughan, Weston projects, Pape and Danforth not places to be at night at all.