valkoholic
Active Member
Michigan U's exist (kind of) on University Avenue south of College and on Keele Street just south of Steeles. Although in this case I think they will need to be under traffic signal control due to the streetcar tracks.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Making a left while eastbound on Eglinton West and needing to go north on Martin Grove takes forever during rush hour. Better, at present, to turn right (south) on Martin Grove and drive 1 block down to Winterton Drive or Nottinghill Gate, make a U-turn on one of those streets, and turn north on Martin Grove.
With the LRT, it should become easier by using the formal left turn directions of using Toronto's version of a Michigan left turn.
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With the LRT, it should become easier by using the formal left turn directions of using Toronto's version of a Michigan left turn.
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
kEiThZ
Superstar
This Michigan Left makes it hell if you want to make a left from a mid-block cross-street onto Eglinton. Instead of a right and a U under the re-routed left turn, you now have to make two rights, a U, and a left. If my street was about to get that kind of treatment, I'd be pretty pissed.
Epi
Active Member
Can also do the 'gas station left' 
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
RANSIT: U-turns along Eglinton LRT planned to keep streetcars moving
Some councillors disapprove of proposal
By DAVID NICKLE
July 14, 2009 4:33 PM
http://www.insidetoronto.ca/article/72368
Print Text
A plan to keep the light rail moving along the planned Eglinton LRT route by transforming left turns into more complicated U-turns is meeting a skeptical eye from councillors along the route.
"It's idiocy," said Etobicoke Centre Councillor Gloria Lindsay Luby, who has been talking with planners and consultant about the proposal that she says will lead to traffic chaos along the busy roadway.
In the east end, Scarborough Centre councillor Michael Thompson is also unimpressed.
"It doesn't look well for me - I've reviewed the diagram and I'll look into it further. But I don't believe that's the way to go� We cannot simply implement the system such as the crosstown and simply suggest be damned with the automobiles irrespective of the fact that we inconvenience people who want to drive."
The crosstown line is one of three that the Toronto Transit Commission and Metrolinx are building through suburban neighbourhoods, as part of the $17.5-billion Transit City plan.
Under the plan, surface light-rail vehicles will travel on their own raised right-of-way down the middle of major arterial roads. In the case of Eglinton, the line stretches from Kennedy Road to Martin Grove Road. Twelve kilometers in the middle of the line will be underground. But to maintain the speed and reliability it needs, when it's above-ground, the transit vehicles must have priority.
On streets like Spadina Avenue, the TTC uses priority traffic signals prohibiting turns when a streetcar is coming through.
On Eglinton, the TTC is proposing the elimination of left turns altogether at 10 intersections.
There, traffic wishing to turn left will be routed onto new right turn lanes, perform a U-turn at new signalized intersections, and loop to the intended direction.
These turns will be provided both on Eglinton and the north-south road.
TTC officials say that the plan will lead to less congestion than a simple left turn with a Spadina-style transit-priority signal.
"The preliminary traffic analyses done by our engineers are showing that there would be problems with the intersection operations if we have that kind of solution," said Stephanie Rice, who's overseeing the environmental assessment for the line.
"The big difference between Spadina and Eglinton is that on Eglinton, we're dealing with 90 metre vehicles - they are multiples of the size of the typical streetcar on Spadina. What the analyses have shown are the LRT operations suffer, the pedestrians crossing the intersection have difficulties, and so does the traffic. It's an attempt to try to address some of the problems they've seen."
The plan for exactly how those turn lanes would operate is still preliminary, but the drawings so far have Lindsay Luby worried that it would involve unacceptable levels of land expropriation.
"I have a problem with what they're planning to do at Martin Grove and Eglinton, because they want to shoot a lane of traffic right through the Richview Reservoir, which has all been planted," said Lindsay Luby.
Rice said that particular intersection may not be the problem the councillor fears - the part of the reservoir they're looking at is well away from soccer fields and active parts of the park, and might just skirt an informal parking area.
"We don't believe there'd be any impact," she said. "The alignment doesn't affect the soccer fields."
But she emphasized it is still early going.
She said the looping turns - such as the ones put in place along the St. Clair line - appear to be the best way to go, whether looping only on Eglinton, or on Eglinton and crossroads.
"The other option is really to have the so-called Spadina treatment, where we simply rely upon the traffic signal to provide the transit priority - to slice up the green time for the various directions of traffic. But the issue is that there's only so much green time to go around. That's what's causing the problems."
Here are the roads where the loops are contemplated: Martin Grove Road, Kipling Avenue, Islington Avenue, Royal York Road, Scarlett Road, Jane Street, Victoria Park Avenue, Pharmacy Avenue, Warden Avenue, Birchmount Road.
Some councillors disapprove of proposal
By DAVID NICKLE
July 14, 2009 4:33 PM
http://www.insidetoronto.ca/article/72368
Print Text
A plan to keep the light rail moving along the planned Eglinton LRT route by transforming left turns into more complicated U-turns is meeting a skeptical eye from councillors along the route.
"It's idiocy," said Etobicoke Centre Councillor Gloria Lindsay Luby, who has been talking with planners and consultant about the proposal that she says will lead to traffic chaos along the busy roadway.
In the east end, Scarborough Centre councillor Michael Thompson is also unimpressed.
"It doesn't look well for me - I've reviewed the diagram and I'll look into it further. But I don't believe that's the way to go� We cannot simply implement the system such as the crosstown and simply suggest be damned with the automobiles irrespective of the fact that we inconvenience people who want to drive."
The crosstown line is one of three that the Toronto Transit Commission and Metrolinx are building through suburban neighbourhoods, as part of the $17.5-billion Transit City plan.
Under the plan, surface light-rail vehicles will travel on their own raised right-of-way down the middle of major arterial roads. In the case of Eglinton, the line stretches from Kennedy Road to Martin Grove Road. Twelve kilometers in the middle of the line will be underground. But to maintain the speed and reliability it needs, when it's above-ground, the transit vehicles must have priority.
On streets like Spadina Avenue, the TTC uses priority traffic signals prohibiting turns when a streetcar is coming through.
On Eglinton, the TTC is proposing the elimination of left turns altogether at 10 intersections.
There, traffic wishing to turn left will be routed onto new right turn lanes, perform a U-turn at new signalized intersections, and loop to the intended direction.
These turns will be provided both on Eglinton and the north-south road.
TTC officials say that the plan will lead to less congestion than a simple left turn with a Spadina-style transit-priority signal.
"The preliminary traffic analyses done by our engineers are showing that there would be problems with the intersection operations if we have that kind of solution," said Stephanie Rice, who's overseeing the environmental assessment for the line.
"The big difference between Spadina and Eglinton is that on Eglinton, we're dealing with 90 metre vehicles - they are multiples of the size of the typical streetcar on Spadina. What the analyses have shown are the LRT operations suffer, the pedestrians crossing the intersection have difficulties, and so does the traffic. It's an attempt to try to address some of the problems they've seen."
The plan for exactly how those turn lanes would operate is still preliminary, but the drawings so far have Lindsay Luby worried that it would involve unacceptable levels of land expropriation.
"I have a problem with what they're planning to do at Martin Grove and Eglinton, because they want to shoot a lane of traffic right through the Richview Reservoir, which has all been planted," said Lindsay Luby.
Rice said that particular intersection may not be the problem the councillor fears - the part of the reservoir they're looking at is well away from soccer fields and active parts of the park, and might just skirt an informal parking area.
"We don't believe there'd be any impact," she said. "The alignment doesn't affect the soccer fields."
But she emphasized it is still early going.
She said the looping turns - such as the ones put in place along the St. Clair line - appear to be the best way to go, whether looping only on Eglinton, or on Eglinton and crossroads.
"The other option is really to have the so-called Spadina treatment, where we simply rely upon the traffic signal to provide the transit priority - to slice up the green time for the various directions of traffic. But the issue is that there's only so much green time to go around. That's what's causing the problems."
Here are the roads where the loops are contemplated: Martin Grove Road, Kipling Avenue, Islington Avenue, Royal York Road, Scarlett Road, Jane Street, Victoria Park Avenue, Pharmacy Avenue, Warden Avenue, Birchmount Road.
kettal
Banned
The option 2 diagram, how does it improve lrt priority? It just moves the turning lane to a different location on the same line.
Komiksulo
Active Member
Left turn at an intersection that does not have a streetcar stop?
kettal
Banned
Does that result in better efficiency? I'm not convinced.
The more cynical side of me is thinking that this is being pushed by somebody who wants to see the plan aborted.
Why is this being proposed on Eglinton but not on Sheppard East?
The more cynical side of me is thinking that this is being pushed by somebody who wants to see the plan aborted.
Why is this being proposed on Eglinton but not on Sheppard East?
Eug
Senior Member
Tell me if this is correct.
Option 2 could cause much more traffic jams on Eglinton than Option 1. However, this traffic jamming could be minimized by including a 3rd left turning lane when necessary (and if there's enough room).
Option 1 would route turning traffic onto side streets, which could keep traffic flowing on Eglinton better.
Left turns ONTO Eglinton would remain unchanged.
Option 2 could cause much more traffic jams on Eglinton than Option 1. However, this traffic jamming could be minimized by including a 3rd left turning lane when necessary (and if there's enough room).
Option 1 would route turning traffic onto side streets, which could keep traffic flowing on Eglinton better.
Left turns ONTO Eglinton would remain unchanged.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It removes left turns which means left turn phases on the stoplights aren't required (less time for the streetcar to wait for a green) and there is less issue of people entering the track ROW which means less accidents. I agree that it is better to move the U-turns off the line altogether but I guess option 2 would still get the benefit of choosing an intersection with less traffic and therefore a shorter light cycle.
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299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
The way left turns are handled today, at an intersection, when there's a left turn phase, it holds up the cars not making turns, the transit vehicles, and pedestrians.
By shifting the turns off the intersections and with proper signal priority, the only people you would be holding up are people wanting to make left turns. Hopefully, this phase should be timed with approaching LRV vehicles, meaning that you can always make a turn until an LRV is approaching, where the signal would then turn red.
By shifting the turns off the intersections and with proper signal priority, the only people you would be holding up are people wanting to make left turns. Hopefully, this phase should be timed with approaching LRV vehicles, meaning that you can always make a turn until an LRV is approaching, where the signal would then turn red.
jks
Continuous Lurker
Yes, this was one point I was really inpressed with. I truly hate Spadina for having to wait for left-turning vehicles.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
When I was in Québec on vacation, I noticed that some intersections had delayed the left turn signals until after the straight and right turns had their chance. Québec doesn't have streetcars or trams (yet).
I wondered why Ontario couldn't do the same here. Or alternatively give the right-of-way to streetcars and light-rail vehicles on right-of-ways, if they set off sensors. Then give the left turners their chance, then the rest.
I wondered why Ontario couldn't do the same here. Or alternatively give the right-of-way to streetcars and light-rail vehicles on right-of-ways, if they set off sensors. Then give the left turners their chance, then the rest.
Dan416
Senior Member
I think that's a practical, rational idea
Which means the TTC won't consider it.
Unless there's another reason I'm not aware of why it can't be done here.