sixrings
Senior Member
still no definitive answer to the question...if there is enough spacing does it need to be elevated to be interlined?
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
Under Miller the length from Black Creek to Laird was underground. If he absolutely wanted it on the streets then he could have done it. Under Miller the TTC right-sized transit to demand and aimed to spread it across the city by reducing wasteful spending on grade separation where there was little benefit and by reducing spending on unneeded capacity. There is no reason to believe this extension of the underground portion to Don Mills wouldn't have happened under Miller as well with the same motivators.
Under Miller the subway to York U was started. It made sense to build subway like capacity to the second largest university in the city. York Region paid for Vaughan. Under Miller the Don Mills corridor was studied as BRT and LRT and it was determined that higher capacity would be required Bloor to downtown so Transit City stopped a Don Mills LRT line at Bloor. Jane LRT was to also have underground portions where it made sense. Kingston Road was studied and BRT was determined to make the most sense so there was no anti-BRT bias. Transit City lines were prioritized by ridership and reach, Jane, Don Mills, Scarborough, and Lakeshore West took a back seat. That is it. No conspiracy. Just no need to waste money on grade separation where simple curbs and stoplight priority can deliver most of the benefits of ROW isolation, and no need to waste money on capacity that isn't required.
Rainforest
Senior Member
A DRL along O'Connor and Vic Park would miss 3 major nodes: Thorncliffe, Flemmingdon, and Science Centre.
I believe that DRL must serve those 3 nodes. And if it does that, I don't see how it can miss the Eglinton / Don Mills station.
Furthermore, a DRL station at Eglinton / Don Mills would utilize the same LRT station and bus terminal that will be built for Eglinton LRT.
If DRL is ever extended north of Eglinton, then veering it east to Vic Park can be considered; but not south of Eglinton.
drum118
Superstar
I disagree that Pape should be the connection point for the BD since it is cheaper to build to Coxwell from Don Mills Rd.
As for O'Connor and Vic Park routing, DOA.
Don Mills/Eglinton has to be the hub for both lines.
As taking it north to Victoria, I have to shoot it down considering my master-plan from 2006 call for the DRL to go north on Victoria from Queen St. Don Mills has and will have more density than Victoria to justify the line there as plan.
Thorncliffe can be service from the Don Mills/Thorcliffe station. The amount of riders for Science Centre is too low for a station by itself as a true DRL line to Steeles, let alone to Hwy 7 as York wants it to be.
I still see this DRL as an S-Bahn using double deck trains like this found in Vienna. Its a Stadler KISS 6 unit built in 2011. It can be someone else model.
Note: It can come in various lengthen.
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k10ery
Senior Member
So you believe that story?
smallspy
Senior Member
Except that the original EA had half of the trains turning back at the west end at Keele with a pocket track west of the platform - passenger levels dropped off significantly west of there. Considering this EA amendment only covers the section west of the portal (and thus west of the pocket track), I think that it is safe to assume that those plans have not changed.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Been to the meeting for the Mt. Dennis Mobility Hub and the MSF on Wednesday.
Looks like they will be dropping the "Weston" name and using "Mt. Dennis" only.
Seems, from the people answering my questions, that "Mt. Dennis" could be the western terminal for phase one of the Crosstown because of the use of 15 bus bays. "Jane" may no longer be the terminal, but I need to see better clarification on that.
The 15 bus bays at "Mt. Dennis" looks like it will be split into two hubs, one large and one small, but the trip to them may have to loop around a block to reach them. There will be a "Kiss-and-Ride", which looks like it also to will be a trip in itself. Didn't see "Park-and-Ride" parking. The entrance to the No Frills from Eglinton could become the bus entrance and exit from Eglinton with bus only traffic lights (automobiles will still be able to turn right to and from Eglinton, but will have to use Black Creek Drive to turn left to and from Eglinton).
The powers-that-be would like to redevelop the Eglinton-Black Creek triangle (No Frills) into a more walkable, street store front, pedestrian-friendly shopping area, hiding the parking in the process.
The "Great Wall" on the north side of Eglinton will be set back and they will create a new green sloping wall and more generous sidewalk. Personally would like to see "hobbit-holes" for windows or entrances to light up the station.
The Scotiabank at Weston & Eglinton could be replaced with the western entrance to the station.
Looks like they will be dropping the "Weston" name and using "Mt. Dennis" only.
Seems, from the people answering my questions, that "Mt. Dennis" could be the western terminal for phase one of the Crosstown because of the use of 15 bus bays. "Jane" may no longer be the terminal, but I need to see better clarification on that.
The 15 bus bays at "Mt. Dennis" looks like it will be split into two hubs, one large and one small, but the trip to them may have to loop around a block to reach them. There will be a "Kiss-and-Ride", which looks like it also to will be a trip in itself. Didn't see "Park-and-Ride" parking. The entrance to the No Frills from Eglinton could become the bus entrance and exit from Eglinton with bus only traffic lights (automobiles will still be able to turn right to and from Eglinton, but will have to use Black Creek Drive to turn left to and from Eglinton).
The powers-that-be would like to redevelop the Eglinton-Black Creek triangle (No Frills) into a more walkable, street store front, pedestrian-friendly shopping area, hiding the parking in the process.
The "Great Wall" on the north side of Eglinton will be set back and they will create a new green sloping wall and more generous sidewalk. Personally would like to see "hobbit-holes" for windows or entrances to light up the station.
The Scotiabank at Weston & Eglinton could be replaced with the western entrance to the station.
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Hmm interesting. I would venture to say though that once the Mt. Dennis mobility hub is in place, that the ridership will gravitate more that way. Once the electrification of the Georgetown line is complete, there are going to be almost as many trains heading through that GO station as there will be subway trains passing through Eglinton West.
What I'd also like to see is the Jane bus detour via Weston and stop at the Mt. Dennis hub, then jog back out on Eglinton West and then continue down Jane. That would dump a significant number of passengers off at that station, instead of having them travel down to the Bloor line (it would likely also be faster for them if they're heading downtown).
Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
The current plan is to make Mt Dennis the southern end of 35 Jane and the northern end of a new route called 19 Jane South.
That would work just as well, haha.
I just think that overall this line has the opportunity to take a lot of pressure off the Bloor-Danforth line. For example, rather than funnelling all of the MiWay buses into Kipling or Islington, I'd like to see some of them, especially some those coming off the new Transitway, run express from the 427 to Mt. Dennis via Eglinton. And once the Georgetown line is electrified, those passengers will have a faster route into downtown than either the MiWay > ECLRT > YUS or the MiWay > B-D > YUS options.
I'd even be tempted to say that Mt. Dennis is a logical near-permanent western terminus for the ECLRT, because it's a major hub, and that it may be better to build either BRT lanes or a dedicated at-grade BRT road through the Richview corridor instead of extending the LRT further west. Don't think of it as a western extension of the ECLRT, think of it as an eastern extension of the Mississauga Transitway.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Who Metrolinx listens to is open to question. The TTC and the City were conspicuous by their absences at the Tuesday meeting, so one has to wonder whether there might already be friction between them, and, accounting implications aside, if it's really such a good idea in the long-term to have Metrolinx running local Toronto transit projects rather than the TTC.
Which, just to throw in a minor detail, he lobbied against.
For what it's worth, a Metrolinx rep stressed to me at the Tuesday meeting that the line will definitely end at Mt. Dennis rather than Jane.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Which is great, but there is a risk of (further) overloading Yonge.
If it's coming from the west, they would presumably transfer at Eglinton West, not Eglinton-Yonge. The University-Spadina Subway doesn't necessarily have lots of spare capacity, but it certainly has more than Yonge, and it has the ability effectively absorb those passengers, especially once the new signalling and all the new trains that were meant to relieve Yonge are implemented.
The biggest problem on the University-Spadina leg is St. George Station, and the insufficient passenger capacity there. It wasn't meant to be a full transfer station, but rather to have half the passengers travelling through it travel through it via an interline scenario. By moving the transfer point for a lot of those passengers further north to Eglinton West, you relieve that choke point. The line itself is fine. Busy, but still manageable.
Also, like I mentioned earlier, when the Brampton GO REX is operational, a lot of passengers will choose to use that to get downtown instead of the TTC rapid transit network.
The bigger problem when it comes to pouring passengers onto an overcrowded line is in the east, which is what the DRL transfer at the Science Centre is supposed to solve. In fact, I'm actually kind of thankful for the Eglinton line in this sense, because it's going to make the DRL even more imperative, because the cluster**k is going to move its way even further north as a result of the ECLRT.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Getting a DRL to the B-D line (Pape or wherever) will be hard enough. Barring Federal funding, getting it to Eglinton within 15-20 years will be next to impossible.
I have a feeling you may be right. I'm just hoping that the Eglinton line is a success, and that it will force the 'relief' further north.
That may also be why the TTC doesn't want an interlined Eglinton & SRT too, because separately the SLRT would dump most people onto B-D, which could be handled by the DRL. But a thru-line means more people staying on and transferring at Yonge instead, which means no DRL interception unless the DRL is extended up to Eglinton.