UD2
Active Member
Civilization west of Don Mills between Eglinton and the DVP includes one large parking lot, a hydro belt, and two 3 storey schools. It should be relatively easy to install elevated rail. i wouldn't count it out.
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Civilization west of Don Mills between Eglinton and the DVP includes one large parking lot, a hydro belt, and two 3 storey schools. It should be relatively easy to install elevated rail. i wouldn't count it out.
Rainforest
Senior Member
If the construction inflation index is consistently greater than the general inflation index, then it is always cheaper to build now than to build in future.
Of course, it might be more beneficial to direct the funding available today towards another project that will be operational sooner than in 25 years.
But if the future cost of DRL station increases due to 3 factors simultaneously: construction cost inflation, the need to build under /over the existing line, and the need to deal with the built-up intersection; then I would not be surprised if building the box now comes out as a better option.
nfitz
Superstar
If there were not O&M costs perhaps. But what's the general lifecycle costs of infrastructure? After a decade or so, your probably averaging about 5% a year in maintenance - or at least you should be. And that exceeds the difference between the construction and consumer price indexes.
drum118
Superstar
As pointed out, O & M has to be taken into consideration along with the funds to build it, as well what it does to the system wide at the time.
At the same time, technologically will change over time to the point what you built for today may not work down the road.
Today we look at a single level system when we should be thinking about going double deck, as it will carry far more riders than a single level line. There are very few places you could put in a 3/4 track system to deal with the increase of ridership 50-100 years down the road.
At the same time, you are guessing what a station location may look like to the point you can overbuilt/under built the station box and the protected area for it.
Since there is very little funding for transit these days, the service charges to pay off the cost of building this infrastructure now could be less than the cost to bring it up to current standards than building it new then. This will take badly need money from something that is badly need then.
Take a look at the Queen St line station and you will see it will cost more to rebuild it if the DRL goes along Queen St than what it has cost since when it was first built in the 40's for PCC streetcars. It totally out dated and will never handle the ridership on opening day.
Platforms are a really big issue as they are too small today, as well having next to no good traffic flow to move riders faster to/from the platforms safely.
North York Centre station box was never built when the line was built to Finch, as there was no need for one then. Today it sees over 25,000 riders and will continue to climb with all those new condos being built around it now.
nfitz
Superstar
Excellent points. And that reminds me.
If the comments that Metrolinx staff made at the meeting are true, that they would have to close the line for 2 years to build a station at Leslie in the future (something I actually find pretty hard to believe actually). Maybe they would be better off the start of the station box now, even if it isn't used for 200 years. Though I expect it would be cheaper to find a way to construct the station in the future without closing the line for significant periods.
drum118
Superstar
If TTC could run trains during the building of the NYC station, why does Metrolinx have to shut the line down for Leslie?
I can't see a station for this location now or 50 years down the road to justify building a box for it. Too costly at the end of the day.
11th
Senior Member
Probably because north Yonge was built using cut-and-cover, whereas the tunnels for Eglinton will not be.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I would think it has to do with the position of the water table. They would need to put in the station box to create an impermeable wall which is tough with the tunnel already there. I would think that the cheapest way to not build the station now but allow for it in the future would be to put the end walls now so the boring machine can tunnel through the end walls to create the seal, but leave the side walls and excavation until a future date.
UD2
Active Member
We won't be needing a Leslie Station for a long time. The 54 Lawrence and 51 Leslie bus will still be running through this location to deliver any passengers to the next station down the road. This would be more than enough to deal with the volume at this location for the next 30-60 years.
If you ever pay a visit to the intersection to Leslie and Eglinton, you would understand why. There are simply not that much useable space to develop.
If you ever pay a visit to the intersection to Leslie and Eglinton, you would understand why. There are simply not that much useable space to develop.
datamouse
Active Member
With the move of the DRL to the 15 year plan Metrolinx needs to address a connection at Don Mills at least in some form. Detailed work of roughing in a box right underneath for the DRL might be too time consuming for the Crosstown schedule but at the very least Metrolinx needs to be sure that the position of the current Crosstown position is located well enough that future construction will have the space necessary close by and void of any future problems. You want to try to avoid the high cost of an interchange station like what happened at Sheppard-Yonge.
nfitz
Superstar
Assuming there's no major change to the land use in the area. Can we really predict what the land use is going to be in the 2100s - particularly at the intersection of Leslie and Wickstead? I'm not saying we should spend much on this - just make sure we don't do something that could be avoided that would make a future station impossible.
Perhaps one could avoid assuming that those who suggest something don't know the area. Until about 2 years ago, I used to drive through that intersection to get to work, day after day.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Once the study and environmental assessment for the DRL is completed, we'll find out if the DRL will be heavy rail or light rail. Also, if there will be a Don Mills LRT continuation or a Don Mills LRT terminal. If heavy rail, then the interchange with the Eglinton will be simply, If the DRL will be light rail or if there will be a Don Mills LRT, then there could be a rail connection between the DRL and Eglinton. Lots of questions to be answered, hopefully answered before construction reaches the Don Mills and Eglinton area.
Ansem
Banned
I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that it will be heavy rail. LRT would not make any sense
I agree. Unless they go with a 4 tracked LRT, it wouldn't make any sense to do anything other than HRT.
Catenary
Active Member
The question is what kind of Heavy Rail? Subways, UPX and GO trains all fall into that category. Although at first glance building a TTC subway line makes the most sense, building a GO compatible S-Bahn type system could also work and relieve congestion in some other places.