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unrealestate said:
can we get a poll going? im saying Nov 2024
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I think the goal is mid-December because it's better optics for Metrolinx and the Ontario government to say it opened in 2024, even if it's just barely.

Between mid-December and January 2025 I'd prefer January because of that lol.
 
Metroscapes said:
I'm late to the party here, but isn't grass the best low-cost mitigation here? is this a section slated for grass, given the concrete isn't flush with the rails for emergency access?
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Grass is not in the cards for this section. In part because they can't due to the bridge immediately to the east, and in part because they seem to try and avoid it at the portals, probably due to how poorly it would do in such a shady area.

Dan
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I am not sure how grass would keep anyone from entering the tracks - considering even rumble strips didn't do so on Queen's Quay. What will truly get that job done is an unforgiving licensing system that keep people with no business on the road away from them.

AoD
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Politically I don't think you're ever going to be able to create meaningful barriers to idiots getting licenses. We have to design for the drivers we have, not the ones we wish the system would put on the road.

The rumble strips aren't enough as you can still drive over them, what's needed are car traps that have a ramp at the entrance so if you come to your senses you can back out. Paint it electric pink, make it reflective, do everything to try and give them a clue, but know that some are clueless. For those, make sure to disable them before they get too far down and need specialized cranes to remove. Design so that any tow truck can get them out of there quick and service can be restored, the hours long shutdowns of the Union loop for this are unacceptable.
 
NotACop123 said:
I think the goal is mid-December because it's better optics for Metrolinx and the Ontario government to say it opened in 2024, even if it's just barely.

Between mid-December and January 2025 I'd prefer January because of that lol.
Click to expand...
Late December also gives them a trial period with a lighter than normal passenger volume, so if there's some catastrophic service issues discovered they have a bit of time to throw resources at a quick fix before the passenger demand picks up again in January.
The risk-averse Metrolinx would probably like that. It would be like a natural soft open, especially with Christmas Day landing on Wednesday this year you have a lot of very low commuter days the rest of the week.
 
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I scrolled up to Thursday and don't see any posts on last Thursday's Metrolinx Board meeting. Here's the time-marked link to what CEO Phil Verster said about the Eglinton Crosstown LRT:


cc @Northern Light in case I missed anything. I haven't seen any media reports covering this.

From the transcript via YouTube (with some light editing for clarity; emphasis added):
  • I have to share with you that our focus on Eglinton Crosstown LRT remains relentless, and we continue to make progress.

  • We are working together with our supply chain with CTS and with a combination of other suppliers to make sure that we can open this line as soon as possible but open it safe and punctual. We've been giving you updates on the five key points on that at technical reviews and consistently.

  • Let me do that again:
    • [Firstly] on physical construction broadly done. City of Toronto is completing the inspections and we are tending to and clearing minor defects as they are identified;

    • Secondly, testing and commissioning. Our site acceptance testing is now at 91.4% and the really crucial one, system integration testing, is at 69.2%. [These are] really important deliverables. While I talk about testing commissioning, I want to talk about the signaling and train control system which is like the nerve center that moves trains around and make sure that trains are safe relative to one another, safe relative to the operation, and operating punctually.
      • The signaling train control system is the most important system. Trains don't steer themselves, saying the obvious, it's the train control system that steers trains and move trains. The release five (5) was a software version that had several software defects in it, and in May-April-May we had a real breakthrough with release six (6) which removed substantially removed defects to the extent that infrastructure was declared ready by us for train-the-trainer and for crew training to start, which was an important precondition from our colleagues in the TTC and from ourselves and that has started.
    • Third area that's really important is therefore the operator training because that is now a very important part of the critical path. 17 trainers have now completed the train-the-trainer program. To give you a sense of this, the train-the-trainer program then translates into operator driver training to get 95 operators trained so that we can get to a completion of training and [so that] services can start in in year - - in the months to follow;

    • The fourth area that's really important is the certification of design. That's really the paperwork. This is an important piece of work where construction certificates must be issued to us by CTS. There are 46 of these construction certificates of which five have been issued. This is systematic steady progress. Clearly, the construction certificates can only be issued after all of the testing is done and all of the deficiencies [are] closed out. So the sequence there is really important. This is the certification that the asset is safe and the asset is what we have bought. It's really important to complete that; [and]

    • The last area [fifth] that's also positive to share is occupancy permits whereby the facilities [are] certified by the City of Toronto as safe to be occupied. We now have 36 of the 40 occupancy certificates which is also steady and relentless progress. So learning from [the] Ottawa [LRT opening], we are planning to when we get to substantial completion to have a bedding-in [breaking-in] period probably two (2) to three (3) months whereby we'll run the full service and at capacity and make sure that we:
      • Iron out all of the operational issues that may exist between maintenance teams;
      • Crews running assets;
      • Trains performing as they should;
      • System performing as they should; to
      • Make sure that on opening day we run a service that is punctual [to] the customers and the market's expectation.

  • We are not declaring an opening date yet but we will declare an opening date three (3) months in advance of that first day of [revenue] service when we expect to run our first [revenue service] trains.
 
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Allandale25 said:
I scrolled up to Thursday and don't see any posts on last Thursday's Metrolinx Board meeting. Here's the time-marked link to what CEO Phil Verster said about the Eglinton Crosstown LRT:


cc @Northern Light in case I missed anything. I haven't seen any media reports covering this.

From the transcript via YouTube (with some light editing for clarity; emphasis added):
  • I have to share with you that our focus on Eglinton Crosstown LRT remains relentless, and we continue to make progress.

  • We are working together with our supply chain with CTS and with a combination of other suppliers to make sure that we can open this line as soon as possible but open it safe and punctual. We've been giving you updates on the five key points on that at technical reviews and consistently.

  • Let me do that again:
    • [Firstly] on physical construction broadly done. City of Toronto is completing the inspections and we are tending to and clearing minor defects as they are identified;

    • Secondly, testing and commissioning. Our site acceptance testing is now at 91.4% and the really crucial one, system integration testing, is at 69.2%. [These are] really important deliverables. While I talk about testing commissioning, I want to talk about the signaling and train control system which is like the nerve center that moves trains around and make sure that trains are safe relative to one another, safe relative to the operation, and operating punctually.
      • The signaling train control system is the most important system. Trains don't steer themselves, saying the obvious, it's the train control system that steers trains and move trains. The release five (5) was a software version that had several software defects in it, and in May-April-May we had a real breakthrough with release six (6) which removed substantially removed defects to the extent that infrastructure was declared ready by us for train-the-trainer and for crew training to start, which was an important precondition from our colleagues in the TTC and from ourselves and that has started.
    • Third area that's really important is therefore the operator training because that is now a very important part of the critical path. 17 trainers have now completed the train-the-trainer program. To give you a sense of this, the train-the-trainer program then translates into operator driver training to get 95 operators trained so that we can get to a completion of training and [so that] services can start in in year - - in the months to follow;

    • The fourth area that's really important is the certification of design. That's really the paperwork. This is an important piece of work where construction certificates must be issued to us by CTS. There are 46 of these construction certificates of which five have been issued. This is systematic steady progress. Clearly, the construction certificates can only be issued after all of the testing is done and all of the deficiencies [are] closed out. So the sequence there is really important. This is the certification that the asset is safe and the asset is what we have bought. It's really important to complete that; [and]

    • The last area [fifth] that's also positive to share is occupancy permits whereby the facilities [are] certified by the City of Toronto as safe to be occupied. We now have 36 of the 40 occupancy certificates which is also steady and relentless progress. So learning from [the] Ottawa [LRT opening], we are planning to when we get to substantial completion to have a bedding-in [breaking-in] period probably two (2) to three (3) months whereby we'll run the full service and at capacity and make sure that we:
      • Iron out all of the operational issues that may exist between maintenance teams;
      • Crews running assets;
      • Trains performing as they should;
      • System performing as they should; to
      • Make sure that on opening day we run a service that is punctual [to] the customers and the market's expectation.
  • We are not declaring an opening date yet but we will declare an opening date three (3) months in advance of that first day of [revenue] service when we expect to run our first [revenue service] trains.
Click to expand...
I wonder how long it will take to complete systems integration from 61%...
 
^ Let's not go backwards. Per the text above it's "69.2%" :)
 

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Allandale25 said:
  • Let me do that again:
    • [Firstly] on physical construction broadly done. City of Toronto is completing the inspections and we are tending to and clearing minor defects as they are identified;
Click to expand...

I interpret this to say that the construction forces have generally demobilised, except for where they are performing commissioning and testing and/or correcting defects.

Allandale25 said:


    • Secondly, testing and commissioning. Our site acceptance testing is now at 91.4% and the really crucial one, system integration testing, is at 69.2%.
Click to expand...

Drives me crazy how the ML Board tosses easy pitches. So, what was the comparable statistic for the past two quarters (I should look these up, but if ML were running proper metric-based reporting we wouldn't have to) 69.2% sounds impressive - but only if it's a significant movement from a quarter or six months ago.

Allandale25 said:
  • Third area that's really important is therefore the operator training because that is now a very important part of the critical path. 17 trainers have now completed the train-the-trainer program. To give you a sense of this, the train-the-trainer program then translates into operator driver training to get 95 operators trained so that we can get to a completion of training and [so that] services can start in in year - - in the months to follow;
Click to expand...

To be balanced, this does sound like progress.

Allandale25 said:

  • The fourth area that's really important is the certification of design. That's really the paperwork. This is an important piece of work where construction certificates must be issued to us by CTS. There are 46 of these construction certificates of which five have been issued. This is systematic steady progress. Clearly, the construction certificates can only be issued after all of the testing is done and all of the deficiencies [are] closed out. So the sequence there is really important. This is the certification that the asset is safe and the asset is what we have bought. It's really important to complete that; [and]
Click to expand...

Back to my last-quarter question. Only five of 46 complete does not sound like "systematic steady progress", especially if the number reported last quarter was non-zero. How many are projected to be complete by the next quarterly report?

The bigger-league question that never seems to be pitched: there have been rumoured or reported structural deficiencies, some of which while never voiced officially sure sounded serious, eg the alleged defects in the underpinning at Eglinton-Yonge. So, to set the record straight once and for all - has ML concluded that there are no serious quality concerns and/or outstanding issues which would require some significant further construction work? Is the entire structure built to the quality expected and life span as contracted? Are any of the remaining 41 seen as problemmatic?

Second big league question - of the remaining known defects and correction orders that are being worked down, which one has the longest projected time to completion? (Another way of asking - if something is at least x months from correction, that would mean no opening for that many months yet, right?)

Allandale25 said:
  • we are planning to when we get to substantial completion to have a bedding-in [breaking-in] period probably two (2) to three (3) months whereby we'll run the full service and at capacity and make sure that we:
    • Iron out all of the operational issues that may exist between maintenance teams;
    • Crews running assets;
    • Trains performing as they should;
    • System performing as they should; to
    • Make sure that on opening day we run a service that is punctual [to] the customers and the market's expectation.
  • We are not declaring an opening date yet but we will declare an opening date three (3) months in advance of that first day of [revenue] service when we expect to run our first [revenue service] trains.
Click to expand...

Basic math then says that if we are running a bedding period of 2-3 months and the intent is to not announce a starting date until 3 months prior to opening, the start of the bedding period is a big hint about opening date.... but even then we will have to see how well the full test performs.

- Paul
 
I’m surprised they can say construction is basically finished and they are only testing and doing integration work while Eglinton station shows there is still lots of work to do to get Eglinton on Yonge line ready. Unless the plan is to leave Eglinton on Yonge line in a decrepit state unworthy of a new transfer station.
 
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